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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2014 - 01:28am PT
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weird to see this pop up again...
I was having trouble the last time I was in Vedauwoo, climbing ok, hiking was horrific...
favoring that foot a lot, and being protective, I winced jumping off some high boulder with climbing shoes on onto the stone, ouch!
but then it went away, completely, for years...
when it flairs up (very rarely these days) I just find the table leg support structure under our dining room table and push the edge of the horizontal beam hard into the space between the toes... really hard.
for some reason that helps me.
DISCLAIMER
I'm not a doctor in real life (well, not a medical doctor) and I don't even play one on TV.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Apr 20, 2014 - 03:14am PT
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When I was having foot pain with similar symptoms, I read about using a 2-litre water bottle to put pressure on the foot - or set front of foot on a stair step and then weight it,to stretch the foot muscles. So Ed,your idea sounds similar.
My experience was that I started to get a horrible pain when I would get out of bed in the morning (or a mid-sleep pee run). It would be nearly impossible to weight the foot, the pain was so bad. I tried the rolling water bottle, stair steps(and rocks along the trail, on climbing days) and it brought temporary relief, but I didn't use it as a regular exercise.
I don't think mine was brought on solely(pun) by climbing shoes. i think it was because I was wearing Crocs as my everyday shoe, 365 days a year, for like two years. There was no arch support whatsoever. so, I followed the other suggestion, which was to use shoes that supported my foot, and inserts to provide further pressure. I just used grocery store Dr Scholl inserts - several people had told me they had paid big money to docs for special inserts which didn't do anything different. Sandals were to be avoided at all cost. It sucked, but my foot got better. And now I can wear Crocs again, but I also wear more supporting shoes too.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Apr 20, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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Thanks all. Yup, gotta move in the direction of doing something. Today on a bike and hike (no I didn't hike the bike!)....at about 5 miles into the hike I wanted to do an Aron Ralston to my foot. When biking up a sustained grade of 4% or greater it kicked in (never happened biking). And it still hurts, but not real bad, just sitting around. That's new.
So I'm starting off with the dining room table thingy, the rolling bottles and sending my addy to get the free inserts!
I've used various ortho inserts and custom made ones for other foot problems a few years back and they only made things worse!
Susan and her foot signing out.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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Thank you Kent! Arrived just in time as I'm off on some extensive traveling. In the shoe as we speak!
Susan
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
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I line my ballet golds with a couple layers of cut up foam insoles from old sneakers. I then place one of those met pads like you have in that picture down under the ball of each foot. So that's three layers total. The things we will do to keep recreating!
I can't feel sh#t for features on the rock but I have been able to climb up to 5.12 this way. Regardless of sensitivity to rock features those met pads saved my climbing as I was not climbing anything with the ball of foot pain like was having. It hurt so bad I couldn't even put my foot on the ground if I wanted to at times.
I actually got stuck in the woods ice climbing a couple years ago and thought I was gonna have to be carried out as I could not stand. Crazy condition as nothing is broken just the ball of your foot feels like someone is drilling a f*#king hole in it or something.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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I had one neuroma in each foot. Both were removed with surgery and I would do it again if another one develops. The surgery is benign, you have to rest your foot a few weeks, and it is over FOREVER. No injections, pads and other gizmos. The sooner you do it, the sooner you are back on the rocks!
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Aug 27, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
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Had to bite the bullet. Surgery next Thursday. Neuroma to come out. I also had a permit to hike Whitney the same day. Surgery won out as I knew I would suffer horribly going up and down Whitney having to take my boot off every hour to rub it.
Not happy about recovery during prime fall play time, but things were just getting too unmanageable with the constant need to remove my boot or shoes to do an on-site massage.
Even drive thru surgery squicks me out. She wanted to do it TOMORROW because she had a cancellation but then said she probably couldn't get insurance authorization that quickly. Phew, I was getting light headed as things went from 0 to 60 in a 15 minute consult.
I went back to re read the related threads and was happy to hear the folks saying it was the best thing they ever did. Hope I report the same.
Susan
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Aug 27, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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Good luck. Still avoidign surgery. Ice that foot every night to keep any inflamation from putting pressure there. I like seeing a few success stories - didn't hear too many of those years ago.
I stopped in a specialty running store after a half marathon - my foot was screaming at me with the burn from 10 miles on. I had to walk a couple of times for quite a while. THe gentlemen told me that your feet do get larger even as an adult. If you are waering the same size show as 20 years ago, it is probably too small, especially at the end of day when your feet expand. So I bought my trail running shoes a full size larger. Thus far, much fewer problems. I also dunk my feet in the streams for a few minutes during my long trail runs. It slows me down, but not as much as being crippled by the pain.
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 27, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
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I'm surprised that I didn't thank Karl for his awesome tip to buy a 2 way shoe stretcher. Just pop it in that brand new shoe you mistakenly bought to your street shoe size (instead of the correct 2 sizes over:-) on the internet and crank it. Voila, instant fit.
THANKS BABA!!!! GREAT TIP!!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 27, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
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Surgery years ago has never been regretted. I bought all sorts of gimmicks before hand and at some point they do not help at all. It's a giant ball of scar tissue on the nerve - it just has to go.
Good luck Susan - nothing to worry about. You'll wonder why you waited so long. :)
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Aug 27, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
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Thanks Crimper. I suspect you are right...."what took me so long".
I've got one of those shoe stretchers. I use it for creating space for an osteoarthritic toe. It's never done anything for my neuroma, but I never expected it to. However, it does create a nice little pocket of extra space to accommodate the bony build up on my toe.
Susan
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 27, 2014 - 04:28pm PT
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I hope to see a full on TR on your experience.
I share this TR - http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1127472&msg=1127472#msg1127472. It focuses on the bunions but you can see the neuroma cut too.
For a while after the surgery, when I'd pull up a sock it'd feel like there was a thread that was sliding between my 3rd and 4th toe. It was so realistic I'd take off my sock hunting for it. Just and odd sensation from the neuroma being cut out. That faded with time.
Today, the ONLY thing I notice is that I don't like anyone pinching my foot on the nerve stumps. It sends zingers and an involuntary foot flinch. Other than that, I don't think about them at all.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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10 hours out. Lidocaine doing it's job....no pain. Of course that could change tonight. Right decision... Doc said it was one of the largest she's seen.
Tomorrow I begin the first of weekly dressing changes until stitches removed, I guess.
Susan
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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You will come to love that protective shoe!! Stay ahead of the pain.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Crimpergirl is right, Susan, stay ahead of the pain. Use those meds. I was up all night after my surgery in intense pain because the bottle said 1 every 4-6 hours. Right after surgery, that is just a suggestion :)
I feel really grateful to just be here to support you and to whine a little about the big toe bruise that I've been dealing with for over 3 months...
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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I hope that your doctor took ol' Morton's neuroma and gave him the old what-for.
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Tan Slacks
climber
Joshua Tree
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Hey Susan,
I hope all goes very well for you. I was just diagnosed two days ago with Morton's Neuroma on my left foot. I have been dealing with the severe on and off pain for several years, only in the last 6 months did it not go away for any extended time. It's killed my climbing time and I can only wear boots at work when absolutely needed.
So I went to the Doc two days ago, he manipulates my foot and I have a very clear clicking going on. I guess this is a good indicator of MN. So he gives me a shot of Cortisone and says "lets see how this does for three weeks" Did you also have the cortisone and if so, was the pain initial relieved?
I was able to wear my boots all day today at work. This is a huge relief, but will it be short lived? The doc said the cortisone works about fifty percent of the time in his experience. My climbing partner out here had the MN surgery several months ago and he is soooo happy climbing pain free again
Heal up quickly and like the others said, stay ahead of the pain right after the surgery.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Yes indeed, these foot problems can be painful and complicated and I agree with Jim that it is useful to understand the cause of the problem and adjust your activity accordingly. If you just "have to" do something that makes the problem worse then maybe a reevaluation is calling your name.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Tan Slacks Did you also have the cortisone and if so, was the pain initial relieved? Yes, two rounds of cortisone about 6 weeks apart. Temporary, partial relief. Prior to that just about every insert, stretch, ice, reducing activity etc for YEARS!
I hurt for many years, turning to suffering this past year....situationally dependent (hiking, running 4+ miles; sustained ascents on my bike) with it edging into more everyday activities...walking around museum, extended shopping etc.
I was very surgery averse, especially being the foot. I did a lot of research and finally settled on a referral from the sports orthopedist who did my shoulder. The referral was to another sports medicine orthopedist who specializes only in foot and ankle. Of course only time will tell, but in terms of homework to pick a doctor I had faith in I was diligent.
As for the procedure itself...no issues, as to long term results...stay tuned!
Susan
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HandCrack
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal.
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Hi there,
Tan Slacks partner here, just thought I'd add my 2 cents.
I went through very much the same things you just described in your last post. The surgery I had last December was a great help in improving my climbing. I can hike, bike, scramble up approaches, all without pain; I've been steadily losing weight that piled up while I couldn't do these things with a bad foot. Best of all, I can slot my foot in a crack and twist it without feeling like someone has stuck a cattle prod into it.
Healing from the surgery went quite well. I believe I was (carefully) doing easy routes in five or six weeks, and climbing without babying it a few weeks later. There is numbness in the third and fourth toes that I'm told will always be there, and sometime I feel a twinge when I step in a way that pushes on the stump of the nerve that was nipped off. Overall though, I have to wonder why I waited so long to get this done.
Hope things work as well for you.
Brandt Allen
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