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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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"God exists in all of us, even me, at least as an idea."
You're sounding rather Catholic to me. Too bad the related dogma gets lost on most. This is the failure of modern religion.
J
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Dave Tapes
Trad climber
Silverado CA
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According to the original post.
Faith Isn't
DW
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WBraun
climber
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The external energy of the Supreme absolute truth is material nature. The atheist can not escape the laws of material nature.
Thus: even the atheist is subordinate to the Lord.
If this was not true then "so called modern science" would be able to keep the human body from aging and death.
Modern science may say: "In the future we will"
They will fail ......
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"If you only have one life to live, selfishness is the way to go"
I interpret this idea the opposite way, seems to me it would make you honor bound to be on your best behavior, no one else to blame, no excuses.
In a theist scenario there is always a convient scapegoat (diety of choice) to pin whatever you want on.
If there is a higher/ being /force/ authority /whatever (I'm not saying yea or nay here) is it possible to take responsibility for your own actions? or anything?
these kind of questions have been known to keep me up at ngiht.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners… But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me… Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life."
-Jeffrey Dahmer
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WBraun
climber
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Jaybro
It is very, very easy to understand.
Just like in a office, if you work for the satisfaction the proprietor, then you have no responsibility, either loss or gain, you are free.
But if you create your own plan and work for, under your own responsibility, then you'll suffer or enjoy.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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God vs. Science? Sort of like the Easter Bunny vs. Piton Ron.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:01am PT
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How can "God vs. Science" happen?
Since everything is part parcel of the the Supreme Absolute truth, then there never really is any separation nor challenge.
The challenge only occurs due to illusion.
The master magician is Supreme, and revels his secrets only to those he deems worthy.
Are you worthy?
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:35am PT
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These discussions are a waste of time.... the scientist says... show me the proof or I won't accept your hypothesis... the believer says... I have faith and that is all I need, so if you will just accept things on faith then you too will believe.. And so it goes... rational people require more than an ancient text.... believers in that text (whatever one you pick) reject anything that varies from it, no matter what, and proof is not necessary for belief ...
So... why waste your time trying to convince each other to change their views as they are really just incapable of such a thing? Why can't we all just get along? I will agree to let you have your beliefs if you will let me have mine without trying to change each others... simple enough.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:40am PT
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(Very crude example)
If I challenge you in something that you are superior and I have no knowledge of that then I'm in illusion (puffed up and arrogant) and thus am not worthy for your instruction.
Unless of course you can exhibit some causeless mercy upon my wretched arrogance. Or I humbly request.
Challenging the Supreme and him submitting to us will mean we are supreme. He always maintains his supremacy.
Challenge George Bush right now to come out on the white lawn and you'll instruct him.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:47am PT
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In the universe that I have come to know, there is no need for anything more than what exists to our senses (often extended by our instrumentation) explained by mathematical logic.
Mathematics is something deep and very interesting. How does it exist? Some mathematicians would state that the existence of mathematics is proof of a god. I am not so sure of that, I do believe that we can understand what it is about the physical universe that allows mathematics to exist.
But that is yet another creation of a mind, ideas. Which ideas are "true?" Which "false?" How do you tell? What sense do you trust? I think the methodologies of science address these questions and are objective.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:52am PT
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And what about the soul?
Is there any science of the soul? The materialists have none.
Material science has advanced to the study of the ether, or the mind and intelligence, but there is no advancement beyond that.
Beyond intelligence, they do not know what exists.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 12:54am PT
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What does it matter what I believe, or what my neighbor believes, or what you believe? We all share the same small place on this planet. We are all nanoseconds in eternity, the life of the universe, whatever you may want to call it. Can’t we focus on our what we share in common rather than our differences? Is science God, or is God science?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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"if you work for the satisfaction the proprietor, then you have no responsibility, either loss or gain, you are free.
But if you create your own plan and work for, under your own responsibility, then you'll suffer or enjoy."
Makes sense to me, mostly, except, I'm not clear in some respects, on the "free" part.
-also sounds kinds like,
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose," K Kristoferson. -which I can interpret in either a good way, or a bad way
or
"Freedom from choice," Devo, same conundrum.
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marky
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:04am PT
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Jody, that really is a wretched argument. Just awful.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:11am PT
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:17am PT
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Werner wrote: And what about the soul?
Is there any science of the soul? The materialists have none.
Werner...your mind allowed you to THINK you have a soul.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:21am PT
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So I have no soul?
So I only think I have a soul?
So James Brown"s mind made soul?
I know Charles Cole made sole .......
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 10, 2008 - 01:33am PT
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First one, ... Not!
But anyways, where the fuk is Jody? It's his thread.
Did he run away?
I'm absolutely under no illusion of trying to change anyone.
I'm trying to learn logic and reason towards a very difficult subject matter. It's very difficult.
But this place is good because most everyone rejects the conclusion.
There is GOD and he is a Person.
So they will burn me at the stake of logic and reason.
But the magician is always there .........
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 10, 2008 - 02:04am PT
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werner wrote: So I only think I have a soul?
You tell me.
Your views so far have only been that...speculation.
Good discussion.
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