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jstan
climber
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Nov 23, 2007 - 06:42pm PT
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Very sorry to hear that. The process of building support can depend upon something as simple as giving the passersby a five second explanation of why you are there. I know when we went through the needle's eye in the 70's we were hugely energized by a climbers's meeting held by the Preserve. It provided the momentum that Ken and Facelift is presently creating in Yosemite.
If I make it to the Gunks next fall I know I will be bringing plastic bags. It is the most important thing any of us can do.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 23, 2007 - 08:13pm PT
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Change to our culture and behaviour has to start somewhere.
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10b4me
climber
1/2way between Yos and Moab
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Nov 24, 2007 - 01:09am PT
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not to sound biased, but the foreign climbers need to be educated about the environment also.
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jstan
climber
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Nov 24, 2007 - 07:19pm PT
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When I think about how it might be if I went to some other country to climb I can easily see how I would not be tuned in at all to the local atmosphere. That was what made it so special during Facelift when I was picking up trash in C4. A young lady from Japan offered me a couple pieces of fruit as a way of expressing appreciation. The guys were over at a table doing what guys do. Even so I have a suspicion they will become aware of what people are trying to do in Yosemite. I believe there is no better way to do it.
Without a doubt there are climbers from every place who are so intent on doing some particular thing they short change things that are important. They come here and do it. We go there and do it. The only response needed is for all of us to persevere. What needs to happen - shall happen.
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Wes Allen
Boulder climber
KY
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Saw Tommy and Beth's slide show on the trip Friday night, and WOW! Some amazing looking climbing there for sure, and climbing 13's on limestone with trad gear sounds crazy. Though the bouldering is what looks really cool to me. Too bad it is so $$$$ to take a raft trip like that.
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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So Wes - were they in GC? I'd love to see that show. There are 500 miles of limestone to be climbed if you can take the choss. You gotta figure its basically the same layers all around Mesquite and St George... ok, so 1000 miles of limestone.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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About those plastic bags, zip lock freezer bags one gallon size are great. they are a little thicker and glas and other sharp things don't poke though so bad.
Don't leave home without a few.
About those rivers, if there were a lot of trash and it floods, then you'll see bits of plastic bags and such up in the trees and bushes at the flood line, after the water comes back down.
If you don't see this at the canyon, then flooding is not what's keeping the beach clean.
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Festus
Mountain climber
Enron by the Sea
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Dirt,
You don't see that. You also don't see the kind of flooding that would cause that (see the "artificial flood" article link I stuck in this thread earlier).
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Wes Allen
Boulder climber
KY
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Yep, in the canyon. And they did mention "scary" and "loose" more the a couple times. There are several kinds of rock the were climbing on. From what they said, there would be a article (Men's journal?) and maybe TV, or something like that. Basically, they said the big wall potential was so-so, but there were miles and miles of cragging and bouldering. Some crazy big caves, like 100 ft of roof bouldering into 100+ foot 5.13 pitches.
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jewedlaw
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Haven't read all the responses so I don't know if this has been touched upon, but what about requiring permits for climbing in the valley? Or at least for big wall trips?
So you pay $20 for a lifetime permit, but if you're caught poopin' off the wall or what not, you get it revoked with some penalty maybe, but in any case, have to pay $20 again (or $40 the next time and so on). Enforcing such a permit would have it's own trouble, but it's a thought.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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I'm glad Chris posted this, as the issue is one that really needs to be addressed. Alas, I've come to the conclusion that climbers will not, perhaps cannot, police themselves. Thus, while I continue to support access, I do so with an eye to impact. At a certain point the environmentalist in me wins out over the climber in me.
As to the high profile climbers hucking sh!t bags. A good friend of mine has the dubious distinction of being shat on by arguable the highest profile climber out there. The culprit took a 'space-st!t', just let it all hang out there. Like Chris, I won't name names because I was not in the party victimized. Perhaps the victim will post on this thread, as I know he lurks here occasionally.
As to holding rockstars to a higher standard... I'm in favor of it as long as we hold ourselves to the same higher standard. There is no reason that the Nose can't be as clean as the Grand Canyon other than (1) selfishness and (2) laziness.
Brian
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