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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 27, 2004 - 01:46pm PT
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Roger is starting to delve into the frontiers of medical research. It turns out that autopsies of cadaveers indicates that "torn rotator cuff" injuries are relatively common as the population ages. Somehow this injury is under-reported, that is, people don't complain about it to their doctors... they find some way to live through it. Climbers, as we know, are a different bread who won't take signs of aging for what they are.
While my PT wasn't "svelte" she helped a lot in my recovery last year from a badly strained right shoulder. This was the result of a chicken-wing/arm-bar maneuver in a wide section of a route I was helping to put up "some where in Yosemite Valley", the location of which I am sworn to secrecy... and a route which, I fully believe, will never appear on any future climber's tick list (not because it isn't a good route, but because you have to walk a long ways to get to it).
Progression: age, injury, reduced income, screw-top wine?! and then "grade-inflation". I was wondering why I found myself attracted to the obscure-circuit climbs... no one else does them so you can represent the "true modern grade" (being one of only a handful of people who ever could have done the route) as much more difficult then the grade provisionally reported to the guide book writer... to the hoard of gym trained climbers who worry why a climb didn't make it to the "select" list of one or another modern publication. They listen to the beta and shake their heads, never.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 27, 2004 - 06:22pm PT
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Hey Ed, on a serious note, I lived with a large tear in my rotator cuff (2cm) for 10 years. After lots of thearpy and a loss of 50% of my muscle mass in my back and shoulder, I insisted on surgery.
Maybe I am the luckiest guy around, but it worked perfectly.
My only regret is that I did not insist 10 years before.
Roger
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 27, 2004 - 07:38pm PT
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Roger, you're lucky to get the tear diagnosed. In most cases the primary care physician will recommend physical therapy and settle for reduced function. I had to insist on getting an MRI on my right shoulder to make sure that I wasn't rehabing a damaged shoulder to something very much less then pre-injury function. Fortunately there was no large tear, i.e. nothing showed up on the MRI. That shoulder rehabed back to strength, what ever loss there was was not noticeable.
But I had to insist even to get Physical Therapy, and my PT was excellent in getting things back in shape.
My recently injured left shoulder was strained on an undercling in September and I haven't seriously rehabbed it yet. I have loss of strength mostly. I certainly couldn't have predicted this and am somwhat unhappy that I didn't continue my shoulder strengthening program throughout the year.
Live and learn.
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dougs510
Trad climber
Nashville, TN.
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Nov 28, 2004 - 12:26am PT
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Well, I never figger'd on seeing 30, much less 40. But, here I am. Training.... Kinda like life... Comes in cycles. And depends on motivation. You wanna climb? Well, I reckon you go get in shape and climb, hmmm..... don't seem so hard to figger out.
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shakey legs
Trad climber
san diego ca
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Nov 28, 2004 - 03:01am PT
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Get up before your wife and kids three days a week and do a few routes at your local crag before going to work. If you stay consistent with your time on the rock your climbing will improve and you are less likely to have injurys.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 29, 2004 - 07:23am PT
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Ed,
It seems common not to continue rehab strengthening exercises once we start feeling good. It's a lot like stretching. We know it's a good thing, but it takes some discipline to do it.
As for getting up early to do a few laps on your backyard crag, exactly where do you live? Heaven?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 29, 2004 - 11:44am PT
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I have always wanted to be a disciplined individual, but I thrive on an absolutely chaotic existence... so I try to match my training to the level of chaos I generate. Problem is that "forgetting" to do something is easier in chaos then in discipline... which is why I like my PT so much, my rehab became a priority because I felt she succeeded if I succeeded.... which is a well known technique for training - get a buddy.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Roger, I am a hand surgeon who climbs. You may have seen some of my prior posts. The condition you mentioned is actually called radial tunnel syndrome, and you are correct, the pathology is where the radial nerve goes under the leading edge of the supinator muscle. It usually occurs due to an anatomic variation, where the leading edge of the supinator muscle is excessively fibrous and tight. It can be worsened in people who work out, esp with supination (turning the forearm palm up), but most of the time, it is anatomic bad luck.
You ought to see a hand surgeon. Go to http://www.ASSH.org and look at the time right hand corner, about 4 lines down: Find a Hand Surgeon.
Good luck, keep up posted. (And the world is small: I now live in San Francisco, but used to live in Cleveland Heights, near Mayfield and some street I now forget)
David Nelson
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hi David:
Of course I remember you and your ascent of the Nose with Ken--great web site, great story. Thanks for your post.
My history with arm and shoulder problems is taking me back to basics. My rotator cuff injury kept me from climbing—and lots of other activities--for ten years. I had such good luck in my surgery and rehabilitation; I decided to take up climbing again. Within a short period of time I was having problems with my elbows and now this supinator muscle/nerve syndrome. If I were a hypochondriac, I would love this.
I have been avoiding any activity that creates that specific pain and had planned to start exercising again--slowly. The book I mentioned, "One pull too many...," states..."If the supinator swells excessively from overuse it can constrict the nerve.... If the stress on the muscle continues, this condition can be made permanent by a buildup of scar tissues around the nerve.” They go to say that stretching is often effective at relieving the stress from the supinator, but that if it does not relieve the stress, surgery will.
In your post, you state that most of the time it is anatomic bad luck, which I take to mean that if it is bad luck, it probably needs surgery. If that your intent? (Surgery is fine with me. I feel like I lost 10 years with endless rehabbing and anti-inflammatories for my rotator cuff. I want to climb.)
I will see my sports medicine physician, Dr Kara Browning, and ask for a referral to a hand specialist, as you suggest. My immediate question is what to do in the mean time. Any advise on the stretching and workouts before a consultation?
By the way, are you planning to go back to the Captain or Half Dome? Sometimes I wonder about trying another long route—I have never done the Nose—only up part of the Stove Legs.
Best, Roger
PS: Are you a Case grad?
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hey mon:
I would have to take another giant leap to get to the point where I could see myself doing lots of long routes. I think I have reported before that Alan Bard and I figured that we probably only had one El Cap route in us, and that we better make the most of it. It was the only time I got up the big stone. I don't know about Alan.
Also, if I had the time and were in shape, the Rostrum, Astroman, West Face of El Cap, the routes on Middle, and the short hard cracks all still hold sway. In the latest Rock and Ice, Pete talks about spending lots of time on each route to soak in the pleasure (my words). I have baked into my head that you have to go fast so that you increase the chances of living. I would have to re-learn.
Still an interesting thought.
A route per kid? Was this like part of a pre-nup? Why are you behind--so to speak?
Best, Roger
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Does anyone over 40 that climbs at a reasonably high standard (whatever that means) have a normal Life?
Keep plugging away and never decide that you are too old; there is always something new to do.
I've pretty much taken part in every routine, from rest day decadence to anal (so to speak) training regimes. If your work schedule doesn't give a lot of time off you boulder more, if you 'walk the earth' after a divorce, you travel more. Just keep at it, there is always something you can do. I actually do stretch on a semi-regular basis.
Increased recovery time is definatley the biggest factor. Aerobic training also becomes more important, but the bones get more spindly so don't forego some kind of resisstance training.
also,
prophylactic Glucosamine
Ibuprophen as needed
Bi-focals
water
Jay-still-under-50-bro
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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8 years passed ...
Now it is life after 50+ years . Updates?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I'm 46, two small kids and a wife, a great wife, and a job. I trail run, hike and boulder. I have a wall in my garage that I boulder on and try and plan at least one good trip a month to keep me motivated. Just got back from Mithral Dihedral last week.
I led all except for the first pitch and flailed miserably in the off-width section and we ended up bailing due to me being exhausted and weak, and thunder and lightening was knocking at the door but it was a great trip none the less. I have another goal to go back and finish it next season. It's stuff like this that keeps me going and motivated.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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what do you all oldtimers do to keep in shape to climb those hard 5.11 cracks?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I wish I could remember my forties....
though pretty sure I climbed more 5.11's ( and 5.12's) at 55 than at 45. So, okay I guess, Alexey
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Spike Flavis
Trad climber
Truckee California
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Here's some ideas from my Blog
Checkout my "older post" called "tips for the time crunched athlete"
Set up a place to train at home.
Ask Peter Croft for some advice!
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frog (the real frog)
Trad climber
San Diego
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Turn 70 in 2 1/2 weeks ...
Happily married 44 years (and she encourages my climbing vice - gave me 10 new cams last Christmas)...
Don't look in the mirror too often (bad short term memory helps)...
Hang out with the "youths" (none of your peers will climb anyway)...
Hit the gym twice a week ...
Do laps on easy routes ...
Every time you visit the Valley do Jam Crack to see if you still "got it" (first climb ever at 50)... last time could still do Lazy Bum ...
Pick parents with "skinny genes" ...
Stop at half the pizza ...
And hope Mountain Man (I think - darned short term memory) comes up with a solution for that last 10 pounds ...
Keep dreamin' ...
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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I say try another angle… like swinging a few bats in the on-deck circle, you could try throwing yourself at some low to moderate 12 cracks, that way there when you step it back to the 11's your coasting the whole way through…
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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anything I climb is 5.11. If I can't do it it's at least 5.12.
But I have to say there are a lot of sandbag ratings in the guide books.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jingy!
Wheeeeeeeeee
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