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stella
climber
cali
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Sep 24, 2007 - 12:43pm PT
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jaybro - yeah, i guess that was a bit of a blanket statement. devils lake has a few random fixed pins, bolts, and fixed anchors (is that big rappel ring still on top of cleopatras needle?) but i can count on one hand the total of these combined that i have seen personally. i learned to climb there as well, and haven't been back in a while, but devil's lake seems to be about as trad as it gets.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 24, 2007 - 12:43pm PT
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We rarely see any TR's of Elephants Perch; clearly some of the best multipitch granite around.
Elbsandstein has long been on my wish list.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Caution: Filling may be hot.
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Sep 24, 2007 - 12:43pm PT
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Just ignore those shiney metallic things with the finger holes next to the crack.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 24, 2007 - 01:29pm PT
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"We rarely see any TR's of Elephants Perch"
Paging Mr Friedrichs!
Thanks, Stella!
Here's another one, can a route on Devil's Doorway be considered trad, when the whole formation was assembled by the CCC?
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana
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Sep 24, 2007 - 03:17pm PT
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OK...what would it be called if you have to rap down 200-300 ft. to the beginnig of the climb and then climb out placing gear? (a la Fremont Canyon?)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 24, 2007 - 03:30pm PT
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Beacon Rock. There are fixed pins and occasional bolt and bashie, but the climbing is still ground up trad. Matter of fact, I chopped my lead line yesterday cleaning a large panel of flakes off a new line yesterday.
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Sep 24, 2007 - 04:12pm PT
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May be too obvious, but ...
Indian Creek. Hasn't everything gone in ground-up there? Free, aid, or mixed. Some things have gone all free after being put in on aid or mixed. Who knows ... are some of the new routes rapped down for pre-placed gear (bolts/removable gear)? Anyway ... I'm not a walking encyclopedia on IC ... just seems pure trad by default.
The Swell, Zion National Park, Canyonlands NP (in the park itself), & Capital Reef NP all come to mind.
The Utah desert tends to favor trad climbing, though there are exceptions.
Enjoy!
burp
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treeman
climber
mule city
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Sep 24, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
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Steelmonkey- I believe Leo's Blowin in the Wind at GM went ground up by hand except for the last bolt. He said he faced the conundrum of not finishing the line or dropping in from the top and sinking one last bolt. Tough call on that one.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Sep 24, 2007 - 04:33pm PT
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Came back to town and found some real live climbing threads on ST! WTF?
How about the Needles in the Black Hills? Or has that area been overrun with rap bolters too? I haven't climbed there in a decade, but historically it fits the definition of trad: ground up, scarce pro too.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Sep 24, 2007 - 04:42pm PT
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The Gunks may have a strong trad ethic, but every weekend you'll see people asking a leader to trail a rope and hang it for them so they can TR beyond their ability to lead(if they even do lead). Others will lead up easier routes to get a rope on a hard route(like hopping on Bunny, to hang(literally)on Retribution/No Solution/Nosedive).
By the way - it looks like next year a new (bouldering) venue may be accessible in the area. The Mohonk Preserve signed a Letter of Understanding a short while ago regarding the Rosendale Water Works(I know no more...whether it was with the Open Space Institute, or the owners of the Water Works land).
....while I still wait to get to the 'ghatt....grrrr. I only so far have found the back park entrances. I have no doubt that's the way....but have no one to go on an expedition with.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:00pm PT
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treeman - I just heard something somewhere about some holds breaking off while he was hooking to drill and basically having to decide if he wanted holds or bolts. Something along that line. Sounds like you have better source of info than the story I heard. Thanks!
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treeman
climber
mule city
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:26pm PT
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Of course, the way the last bolt got in on Blowin' at GM is a little dicey: Leo talked the late Robert Drysdale (who had never been to GM) into rapping down and placing the last bolt with a power drill. So word so gets out that Leo rap/ power drilled the whole route and the Prescott College crew gets all up in arms and slanders Leo and every move the guy ever made. Anyone know of any Blowin' repeats?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:40pm PT
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Lt Lugar, I don't think the trad / sport, thing is decided by the method of approach to the base of climb, if you don't preview, anyway. har.
Really,
Rapping down to a ledge, pulling the ropes, and climbing a new line out, seems to me to be about as trad as it gets. No one seems to reffer to those brit sea cliff routes as 'sportclimbs.'
On the other hand, I'm not big on labels.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:48pm PT
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Labels tend to connote limitation: “don't box me in dude”.
Distinctions on the other hand, highlight uniqueness and beget understanding.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
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Dang! For a drugstore cowboy, you have your moments, hehe.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:54pm PT
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I climbed for one day at Elbsandstein. Just left the rope in the car 'cuz I didn't do anything I wasn't willing to downsolo. Pretty hard going chalkless in the summer. They have all these little steel boxes on the summit for the registers-- it's one of the few places where I actually signed those things. There are routes that are fairly well-protected by ring bolts--steep slabs that look pretty cool, so long as you are careful to select routes with better rock.
But "trad" is a pretty squishy concept--what counts as "trad" is going to vary slightly from area to area. In Elbsandstein shoulder stands are allowed on lots of routes (one way to get past a blank section that would otherwise require aid is to climb until the holds end; place a ring bolt and call it a belay; then stand on the belayer's shoulders to reach the next set of holds; repeat as necessary, so long as the rings are spaced). And since metal chocks and cams are also illegal, you will see perfecly lovely (and protectable) flakes and cracks with ringbolts alongside them. That wouldn't fly in American "trad."
I'd go back if I thought I could get lucky with some cool weather
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 24, 2007 - 08:20pm PT
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jaybro wrote
"Rapping down to a ledge, pulling the ropes, and climbing a new line out, seems to me to be about as trad as it gets."
Millbrook!
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Ezra
Trad climber
WA, NC
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Sep 24, 2007 - 08:34pm PT
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Bad influence, where is that cliff band, it looks very familiar.
Thanks
-e
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 24, 2007 - 08:44pm PT
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Gunks
Ezra I'll be in NC at the end of this week
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 24, 2007 - 10:47pm PT
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Hadn't really heard anyone slamming Leo. Guess it'll happen, though. I've never heard of anyone repeating the line. At 5.13, don't think there'll ever be a big line on it. Or a small line...
Ever hear of a repeat on Waugh's free climb of the Nose at Granite Mountain (aka Bridge Across Forever)?
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