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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Dec 31, 2008 - 05:13pm PT
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ecwhateva, I agree with you. I was referring to bolting myths.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Dec 31, 2008 - 06:12pm PT
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Hey Kurt,
Amen.
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Captain...or Skully
Trad climber
North of the Owyhees
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Dec 31, 2008 - 07:26pm PT
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Bolting is a myth.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 31, 2008 - 07:33pm PT
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This is about a worn out subject that you can possibly think of in climbing. Very few routes have been retro-bolted. Plain and simple.
Why don't we talk about what this younger generation of bad asses are doing...it's much more interesting.
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ec
climber
ca
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Dec 31, 2008 - 08:46pm PT
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back atcha,
yer right tho', nobody down the road will give a sh*t what I think!
LOL - ecforU2say
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ec
climber
ca
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Now there's a myth: that Pressure Sensitive on Moro Rock gets climbed. OCTGENO, yeow! That's some serious sh*t!
 ec
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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I just got off of a strange night bouncing at the bar I work at. I am too awake to sleep and too tired to think. So, I decided to join in on the asinine conversation of bolting.
Alex Honnold and I went to the Cookie. We ran laps on the Cookie Monster-Alex climbed twice as many as I. We clipped the bolts without a second thought. It is unfortunate that the route was retro-bolted. The metal steals the aesthetics.
Since the bolts are there, I will clip them. Beyond the important damage to the aesthetics, It is a shame that there is no more commitment to the Cookie Monster; it is a sterilized sport climb. But I am not ashamed to take the easier road out and clip the bolts if that is what's there for me.
The advantage of having this route paved is that it can be used as a training ground for the steep granite of the Westie Face of Leaning Tower, The Quantum Mechanic on the Column, or for the physical fitness of a free solo of Moonlight Buttress. The training from clipping bolts can be used to move the commitment of our sport farther into steeper and harder terrain.
I do not condone retro bolting. It is an unfortunate truth in climbing that he who does, makes the rules. The man who bolted the Cookie Monster set the standard. The man who chops the route will set the new standard. Until action is taken there is nothing but a bunch of late night internet lurkers waxing poetic about lost glory. Excuse me but I do believe I am done waxing off on the internet for the evening. I need to go to sleep.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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A lot of talk about, if you can't handle it, stay off. Or, don't dummy it down to your level with more bolts.
If the FA put in bolts every 30-40 foot or so, didn't he dumb it down already to some degree of comfort? And where's the, "can't handle it, stay off it", mentality to the FA in respect to adding any bolts period?
First come, first serve = selfish service when were dealing with public rock. I'll respect the FA's out there, but to expect that everyone follow an unwritten law is not being realistic. Just the way it is.
I would never add or subtract bolts to a route, just asking if these aren't double standards.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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James said:
"The advantage of having this route paved..."
hahahahahahahaha
Having this route paved!
Dude, you can really turn a phrase.
What a pearl !!!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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"Well, this is about mythology, isn't it Roy? ;-)"
Ha!
Mr Stich,
Your hand should be slapped for reaching into that naughty cookie jar. 'Maybe one teeny tiny bite...
Mr Smith has established quite an impressive body of bold work.
Sure, with some few exceptions, some experimentation & deviation from the purist path. I think that experience can empower a strong position in these matters: it doesn't nesessarily disqualify or detract. Yet pushing it deep into the shadow produces a cold soup unwarmed by humility.
The stock hero worshipers will always eat it up, but the jihadist stance on purist style won't win any swing voters.
As an example, (and not to say it should be altered), to my mind, badass doesn't in every case equal visionary. At the time it went up, I felt "The Kid" was more a show of unbridaled avarice rather than an inspired contribution.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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'The Kid' says in his original post: "Commitment is what the sport has always been based on until now, and to take routes that have character and bring them down to some wanker's level, kills what little values and history and flavor we have left. If you want to clip bolts all day long then go to jail house or somewhere else. Maybe instead of looking to bring a route down to your level, maybe you should strive to taste adventure and learn what the word committed means".
An interesting statement from someone that installed 8 bolt on holds and manufactured pockets on an overhanging wall in Clear Creek Canyon CO so the route could be "free climbed"... If this isn't bringing a route "down to your level", then what is? Fundamentally, it's no different than a "wanker" such as myself adding holds or bolts to an ultra bold Tuolumne 5.12+X so I can climb it. Can you say "double standard"? While I certainly respect The Kid's climbing ability and many of the routes he established over the years, it seems silly to stand on such a soap box when the termites of the past are chewing on it's base......... munch munch ;-)
Edit: I completely agree with the concept that boldness and commitment are extremely important and worthy in climbing, but the delivery in the initial post is questionable. My $ .02 worth.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Ouch......Kurt, time to step back into your own conversation.
I too respect boldness, and trying to leave things as the first ascent team.
I never measured a rope for ground fall potential or bolted on a hold either. I'm not saying it was or wasn't done..I don't know.
I have done some bold things and some questionable things myself, so I won't be casting too many stones...
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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....HAH.... bitter,envious colorado wanker alert !!!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Right on Al,
How are things out in your neck of the woods?
This is really a boldness appreciation thread.
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Captain...or Skully
Trad climber
North of the Owyhees
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It's a myth, a myth, I tell ya.
The Ancients used to bolt the mountains....Zeus used to carry a couple everywhere He went.
Such things have been lost in modern times.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Yo Roy - just a little New Years deli spray *
When you comin west ?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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'Looks like late April.
I have been in touch with Kurt: he will also be making out.
The wind is blowing hard out here, yow, no foolin'.
(Double entendre works too.)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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C'mon Kurt post up!
Ears burning yet?
Take a break from that lucrative repping job.
We need pictures.
Glory days.
Electric Africa?
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Prod
Trad climber
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Just Curious, did "The Kid" ever answer to these actions?
An interesting statement from someone that installed 8 bolt on holds and manufactured pockets on an overhanging wall in Clear Creek Canyon CO so the route could be "free climbed"... If this isn't bringing a route "down to your level", then what is? Fundamentally, it's no different than a "wanker" such as myself adding holds or bolts to an ultra bold Tuolumne 5.12+X so I can climb it. Can you say "double standard"? While I certainly respect The Kid's climbing ability and many of the routes he established over the years, it seems silly to stand on such a soap box when the termites of the past are chewing on it's base......... munch munch ;-)
I never measured a rope for ground fall potential or bolted on a hold either. I'm not saying it was or wasn't done..I don't know.
Prod.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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I'm trying r e a l l y hard to understand how one avoids climbing the wrong way, but just when I think I'm starting to have a grasp on things...
For an outdoor adventure that's purportedly supposed to be as unique as each person interprets it, there sure are apparently a lot of damn rules and even more people looking over one's shoulders commenting on one's compliance with said "rules".
Quoting Steve Roper from Camp 4, quoting Dave Brower (in 1963), quoting John Salathé: "Vy can't ve chust climb!"
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