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cleo
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 12:52pm PT
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The Libertarian in me says: Let people make their own decisions (and the park service is certainly not liable nor obligated to do anything). Having said that, I think there are 2 major differences on the cables from when they were first installed.
1 - Slippery, worn rock surface
2 - Far greater numbers of visitors (many of whom may be not thinking reasonably after sclepping themselves up 8 miles of trail and observing "everyone else is doing it").
Would it hurt to install a few additional wooden steps?
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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A sign at the base of the cables is pretty worthless, people can see the cables and what they are getting into at that point.
What probably should be improved is the warning wherever official descriptions of the hike are. In the visitior guide, etc. I think they do a good job of describing the challenge of the hike, (distance and vertical) but they could add more details about the cables,
e.g. WARNING: the final leg of the journey involves hiking up 1300 feet of rock at an angle of 45 degrees. Cables handrails and wooden steps every 10 feet help, but a slip could result in injury or death.
Then have a good picture of the cables.
Not only may this save another life, but would probably help the much larger number of people who hike so long to get there, then turn around because they are unprepared for the challenge of the cables. I'm sure a lot of people get all the way up there, and then continue up the cables since they didn't want to have wasted all that hiking, better to send them up Upper Yosemite Falls or something.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:06pm PT
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46 degrees.
There will never be a video, more signs, or a phone at the base, and it has nothing to do with liability.
It has everything to do with the interpretation of the wilderness act, and exactly what the "minimum implement" to do the job is. If there were more warning signs there, there would have to be signs at every creek crossing on every trail in the wilderness.
However, it is a bit of a juxtaposition to not want to install signs for want of preserving people's wilderness experience whilst permanent cables are right there, obviously un-natural.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
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I could be wrong, but I think more people may die slipping off the Falls trail b/c it seems harmless.
I know what you're saying about warning people in advance so they don't do something they're not up for to avoid the slunk down 8 miles of trail w/ that "I bailed" feeling.
Funny thing is, I bet many of our hardest/scariest pitches got led when we realized we were in over our heads but felt like we'd come all that way and didn't really want to bail.
JL...Roper sez 46 degrees for the original route. Don't know how accurate that is or how it relates to the steepest parts of the cables.
wildone...I don't catch your drift. There are signs all over the wilderness in Yosemite. Is there supposed to be an offical ban on that?
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:18pm PT
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If you change the cables, what's next? A guard rail along the NW Face? I mean, how many tourons have fallen off that diving board?
There's nothing to be done or changed, because of one certainty... People will find ever more creative and astonishing ways to die.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:24pm PT
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Is there a pic somewhere of the cables? I've never been on 'em.
Edit: If you google 'half dome cables', there's alot of pics. Doesn't seem too bad, especially with two cables, I thought there was just one cable.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:48pm PT
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Melissa-don't shhot the messenger, I was merely relating why the NPS won't add signs to half dome. As for signs all over the backcountry, a long time ago, the nps decided that trail mileage signs were the "necessary minimum tool" for some reason. People have come to appreciate and depend on them, so they would be hard to remove, politically. The other sign I've seen is at the top of the falls telling people of the hazards (duh).
Other than that, I haven't seen all these signs you speak of, and I've covered about 650 of the 840 or so trail miles in Yosemite.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 01:58pm PT
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I'm not shooting...just saying that I don't understand b/c every trail that I've been on (and then some) has had signage. I have mostly only been on the better traveled trails. There are the metal way point signs, occasional bear signs, an interestign one warning of the drop off by Wash. Column that I've heard of but haven't seen, the falls warning sign...in any case, enough signs that I didn't realize that there was a ban on them.
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tonym
climber
Oklahoma
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:01pm PT
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"Common sense is not so common."
~Voltaire
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Jun 21, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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Euro-style tram :)
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:06pm PT
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Someone asked for a pic. This one was in today's SF Chronicle, it supposedly shows the cable route about 30 minutes before the latest fatality.
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wildone
climber
The Astroman of 5.9
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:18pm PT
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Not a ban, Melissa, but merely a guiding management principle.
Most likely, those signs are a holdover from a previous era when the park management had different ideas regarding wilderness management (ie: firefalls, etc)
Sometimes, if SAR thinks a sign is necessary, they will put one up (like the top of Washington Collumn)
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 21, 2007 - 03:22pm PT
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Leave us our choice, freedoms and personal responsibility. If we F* up it's sad but thats life.
On a similar vein, did not our very own ST poster "Oli" not make the first 1 day ascent/descent of the cable route using a few pitons and hobnail boots back in the 50's?
The 1850's. I was perusing his books but did not find this historical info. (is that Ron O in the back over there frantically waving his hand now?)
So I don't know what all the complaining is about.
BTW, last time I came down them, I thought that there was about 3 sharp lil broken steel cables too many sticking out for the unwary's hand to get stuck on. I thought that gloves would have been nice. Had I not been too lazy to carry them up.....
I wonder if the reaction to getting stuck by a sharp object could lead to a death?
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2007 - 04:19pm PT
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Speaking of Yellowstone bison and NPS warnings:
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jun 21, 2007 - 04:58pm PT
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At birth - everyone should be issued a card that states "Life is Lethal - Proceed at Your Own Risk".
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 21, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just not today.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 21, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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They already have warning signs, so why not add one to underscore the danger of the cable route?
MELISSA THE WALLRESS Edit: This is supposedly the warning sign on the Falls Trail:
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jun 21, 2007 - 06:33pm PT
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I just got a call back from NPS Yosemite spokesperson Adrienne Freeman:
* The Mercury News reporter was wrong about the number of fatalities on the cables. Instead of nine fatal falls since since 1971, there have been nine falls from the cables, only three of which were fatal.
* The reporter misquoted Freeman in writing there has been a 30 percent increase in visitors to all Yosemite trails. Freeman actually said that there has been a 30 percent increase only on the Half Dome trail.
Thanks, Bob "BoKu" K.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 21, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
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That pic of the cables and the crowd is both impressive and scary.
Impressive that there is that many people that hike in 8 not-flat miles to do that. Scary because I can easily see how that would cause accidents.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jun 23, 2007 - 11:04pm PT
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Cost of the helicopter, SAR folks, Ranger time spent on reports, and then the reports on the reports: Big $$$!
I bet it all exceeds the cost of adding a second line of
cables alongside the existing one. If layed out right
there could be 3 lanes. Up,Down and a Center lane for overflow
and/or the nervous.
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