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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jun 18, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
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now, if we could just get the NPS to re-introduce grizzly bears too...
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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Jun 18, 2007 - 07:39pm PT
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Is there a compelling reason for the NPS to keep the cables? I can't think of even one. They are a hassle to take up and take down every year, they do nothing for "the resource", there are plenty of outstanding hikes in the immediate area that could handle the additional traffic - Clouds Rest comes to mind - and, too many of the folks on those cables are there because its just part of a half dome hike.
Would there be "public outcry"? Sure! After all, I still hear people whining about the lack of firefall, permitless hiking, open fires anywhere, camping right next to lakes and streams, and - dare I mention it - dogs in the backcountry.
Take 'em down and leave 'em down.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
look around look around, tell me what you've found
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2007 - 08:00pm PT
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cloud's rest is also a better view
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Jun 18, 2007 - 09:28pm PT
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They got rid of the firefall. They should get rid of the cables too.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 18, 2007 - 11:11pm PT
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Just to be clear, I don't think there should be a requirement for via ferrata gear for the cables. Just a sign that says proper gear is required and a suggestion to use via ferrata type safety lines.
That the cables are dangerous is understated by the NPS, I think a little caution might go a long way. After all, it's not like this is the first time someone fell off of those things.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 18, 2007 - 11:22pm PT
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Why does the screw-up of ONE person carry more weight with the *tear-down-the-cables* folks than the tens of thousands who manage to make it up and down those same cables with absolutely no problems at all?
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Jun 18, 2007 - 11:44pm PT
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Leave the cables alone. The number of fatal accidents are minimal on half dome compared to the number of in everyday life. Yup its like a freeway up there but. there is so much more that one can enjoy in the valley if you dont want to deal with the crowds. Alot of people make the trek up there and a good number make it too. If we limit the number of people who can hike up there imagine the fall out in relationship to the number of people who can climb the many regular routes in other areas of the park.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
look around look around, tell me what you've found
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2007 - 12:32am PT
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"Those economically disadvantaged folks can't afford to drive there either. Let's give them free gasoline, park entrance, and campsites too."
i'm ALL FOR programs that take economically disadvantaged kids out of the ghettos and plop them in the mountains.
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Quaken
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Jun 19, 2007 - 01:23am PT
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Leave them up, Thin the Herd
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
look around look around, tell me what you've found
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2007 - 01:40am PT
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i wouldn't declare that everyone living in poverty also experiences a poverty of the soul, but kids who have seen a lot need time to process that. i believe the wilderness helps to facilitate that. plus, kids who havn't been given a lot of opportunities to experience the success of accomplishment get an opportunity to try and succeed at something, like hiking from point a to point b, or climbing a rock. it's simple. that's great.
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Mimi
climber
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Jun 19, 2007 - 01:43am PT
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Toil builds character. Physical exertion toward a goal is very satisfying. Pretty primal really. When you're dealing with basal emotional issues, how could that not be a healthy formula?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 19, 2007 - 02:36am PT
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We, as climbers, should want the cables to stay, and here is my reasoning:
Most people have no concept of the joys of climbing, and basically think of us as reckless idiots. That's why Hillary was answering the question, ordinary people don't understand.
Unless, that ordinary person has climbed Half-Dome. Tens of thousands of people, every year, get a chance to do something they never would: climb rock, experience real exposure, get the exhilaration of being on top of a real mountain that it takes real effort to attain, and experience what that is like.
That is tens of thousands of voters, constituents, taxpayers, that understand, albeit slightly, the joys of climbing, and most likely attain some level of support for what we do.
And political support is critical. If there is a problem, the easiest way to end the problem is shut the mountain down.
One astronaut to another:
Get chummy with the press, buddy. no bucks, no buck rogers.....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 19, 2007 - 11:41am PT
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Bring back the firefall!
It was neat!
Bring back the River Campgrounds!
They were great!
Reduce LEO by 80%, and let the remainder ride ponies!
Long Live Stoneman Meadow and Free Love!
That deserves repeating ...
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 19, 2007 - 11:44am PT
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"i'm ALL FOR programs that take economically disadvantaged kids out of the ghettos and plop them in the mountains."
I always wished for a program that would let us poor mountain (or hill as the case may be) kids spend the summer in New York or at least Pittsburgh.
But about the cables...I couldn't agree w/ the last climber more. (re: voters getting a climbing experience in case someone posted in between...)
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Jun 19, 2007 - 12:31pm PT
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Keep the cables, but increase signage saying "You can easily die here," a la SF's Ocean Beach. They sure are handy for getting down after a long day/week of climbing!
What the outside world is saying:
Tom Stienstra: Eyewitness report of Half Dome fall
SF Chronicle, June 19, 2007
""A Chronicle reader climbing Half Dome on Saturday saw a young man fall to his death from near the top of Half Dome in Yosemite National Park.
The on-the-spot report comes from a reader who asked to be called "ADL." He was making the park's famous climb up the back side of Half Dome, where climbing cables have been affixed to the steepest part of the ascent to make it possible for hikers to gain the famous domed top.
"He slid right by me while I was on the cables," ADL reported. "It was horrifying to witness. I did speak to a person, with his young daughter, who was directly behind the victim. Apparently it was at or near the cables. Somehow the victim lost his footing, tried to grab one of the vertical posts but could not."
After seeing this horrific event, ADL had several questions:
ADL: "I think the Half Dome cable ascent is very dangerous, and there must be more things the park can do in terms of safety and prevention. The sentiment seems to be "climb at your own risk", and I don't think that's right. In the very least, there should be another set of cables, meaning one for "up" & another for "down."
TS: I have made the climb to the top of Half Dome several times. At one point, the hike becomes an act of faith. You hang on to the cables and wedge your boots into crevices. If you are subject to vertigo or spatial disorientation, you better not look down at the freefall below. As you climb, the view into Tenaya Canyon is world-class.
Because climbing Half Dome is so difficult and yet has become a marquee rite of passage, there can be terrible traffic jams at the cables. The idea of installing two cables, one for up, another for down, would solve the dangerous moment when people meet going opposite directions. A trailhead quota with reservations would also be helpful.
ADL: "Maybe safety nets can be installed?
TS: This is wilderness. That means you indeed go at your own risk. I've seen some people treat Half Dome like a thrill ride at an amusement park. They are often unprepared in terms of physical conditioning, and the gear, clothing, water and food they bring.
ADL: "How often are the cables & posts inspected?"
TS: The climbing cables are removed at the end of summer, and then repositioned every year in early summer. Last year, a major renovation of the climbing cables was completed. So the cables are virtually brand new right now and are checked by engineers every spring, as well as daily during the season by rangers who make the climb.
ADL: "Are park officials researching ways to improve safety, to make things less dangerous for those who want to get to the top?"
TS: Yosemite rangers and the park superintendent are always discussing ways to keep people safe in the park. That is why interpretive centers have been built and rangers are available to help people make the right decisions.
But I've seen hundreds of instances where people start hiking up from Happy Isles to see Vernal Falls and Nevada Falls, and the next thing you know, they make the decision to keep going to Little Yosemite and then on to the top of Half Dome. This is not only dangerious to do on the spur-of-the-moment, it is ridiculous. This is one of the most difficult single-day treks in California, a round trip of about 20 miles with 4,000 feet of elevation gain, even for people completely prepared, in top condition, with plenty of water. So the answer is staying off the rock unless you are prepared in mind, body, gear. On one hand, I've seen prepared kids 7-years-old have no problem, and reckless young men in their mid-20s make a series of mistakes that put their lives at risk. The park service cannot control the decisions some people make out there.
The rock is unforgiving to any mistakes. My heart goes out to any one and any family involved in a climbing accident.""
Plus, many reader comments omitted but found here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sgreen/detail?blogid=40&entry_id=17696
SAVE ME FROM MYSELF Edit: The key difference between the danger presented by HD cables and other hazardous spots is that the NPS maintains/installs the cables. This current uproar is not a quest to eliminate risks from outdoor activities. People are just wondering whether the NPS (i.e. Fed. Govt.) should be enabling people to kill themselves.
CRAWLING FROM THE WRECKAGE Edit: I also agree with below poster re: circus atmosphere atop HD is a drag. We had people dropping rocks on/near us as we climed the last few pitches. They were gone when we topped out, but the hordes were still there, full of questions. I literally RAN down the cables, sliding on the soles of my sneakers. No one was injured.
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10b4me
Trad climber
Hell A
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Jun 19, 2007 - 12:37pm PT
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NewsFlash: NPS to consider installing escalator on Half Dome.:-)
what about the hike to Angels Landing in Zion. it's somewhat exposed in spots. should we rope up for that?
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Dusty
Trad climber
up & down highway 99
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Jun 19, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
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Lose the cables. It worked fine on the Long's Peak Cables Route, and there are fewer accidents now. Fixed cable inspire recklessness in the unprepared and are dangerous for that reason. There's plenty of cool summits in Yosemite that are safe for the everday hiker and don't require massive amounts of unsightly fixed junk. Plus I don't like to admit it, but I hated topping out the NW face to hordes of folks above you taking pictures, asking questions etc... this is expected at Swan Slab but an alpine wall like Half Dome?? Come back. But hey, that's just me.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 19, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
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Why bother w/ crowding at the cables and people risking sudden death (which I'd bet my lunch happens more often on the hike anyway) when you can have them killing themselves slowly by eating consessionaire burgers while they take pictures of bears in El Cap meadow from the comfort of their SUV?
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imnotclever
climber
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Jun 19, 2007 - 02:21pm PT
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Has any of you, that have done the cables, actually seen somebody harness up and clip in?
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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Jun 19, 2007 - 02:27pm PT
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Apparently people use the cables in early season to descend from Snake Dike (before the supports go up) -
The guy in the pic (click for full page on SP) is apparently wearing a harness and has a prusik loop on the cable. Note presence of snow/ice.
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