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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2007 - 05:11pm PT
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is that an ER situation riley?
if the maximum goal of clean climbing is to do it clean, then ron has done a great job.
if the goal was to have some form of going for it then by some climbers perspectives if it took several ascents of climbing a grade V with constructive scarring techniques may be a form of "building a vertical path."
i am merely playing devils advocate here. i admire rons ascents. to me it took balls to go up the routes he did, many times all alone, on an unclimbed bigwall. on a medium that at the time, was considered unsafe in the extreme. and maybe ron has done some routes without a hammer on the FA which of course takes HUGE balls.
the other thing is that there are a huge number of climbers that have started big wall climbing on rons routes. now you can either say that is good, or it is bad depending upon ones perspective.
i am not out to pick on pitonron. like i said, at the time he did those routes i though solo was pretty amazing. perhaps not a step up in terms of style when compared to jello's ascents, but nobody can match jello's style and boldness. maybe his cousin, but thats about it.
when you factor in pitonrons routes and constructive scarring techniques that were clearly controversial in the early 80's, history might conclude that there really was nobody better for the task at hand. i sincerely believe that.
what i am trying to point out that this whole clean as a whistle on every placement crap could run counter to the boldness of going for it with little or no knowledge.
in free climbing the onsite is the best way to send. walk up to the climb and do it with no beta. but i am merely suggesting that this is contradictory perhaps to doing your best job on a wall to go clean by reading every ST post there ever was on a climb.
sorry, i am throwing out an old timers perspective.
ron, just to make it clear, i aint picking on you but i think you as an advocate of clean climbing and a pioneer on soft rock with all your years of experience have some examples that can be thrown in the mix.
compare that to say a guy like ammon, who i have never met, (but have huge admiration for) who jumps on a wall he has never done and tries to do it in a push? to me that represents the boldness part of the equation.
pitonrons ascents represent tenacity.
tenacity and boldness are both things admireable and necessary qualities in good climbers. i tend to believe in the modern day era of internet route beta there is less of the boldness stuff going on. that is my point by this whole line of thought....
carryon.
EDITED to add,
riley, a big bong in the ass mite be the worst if that is your thing
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Jun 15, 2007 - 05:12pm PT
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Dave,
The point you made about using a tap hammer to tap nuts out is exactly what I do. I don't pull wires due to scaring.
I never claim a hammerless or clean ascent. I really don't care. I just try to climb as clean as possible without damaging the sounderings any more than I have too.
No matter how clean we think we climb we impact the environment one way or the other. Just try to do the best that I can.
Cheers,
john
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N0_ONE
Social climber
Utah
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Jun 15, 2007 - 05:20pm PT
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Ron....
"My routes are designer routes.
They're like sausage. Tasty, but you don't want to know how they're made."
Bwa ha ha ha, Ohh Sh!t, That's funny! Bwa ha ha ha!!!! (whiping a tear from my eyes)
Now that's honesty!!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 15, 2007 - 05:23pm PT
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that is isnt it....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 15, 2007 - 06:10pm PT
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Gawd!
Why on earth would I think you are picking on me Hawk? I'm flattered.
But to fill in some of the gaps;
The south face of Cerberus took much work to become the Touchstone Wall, but even on the FA I saw the potential.
It all became part of a learning curve, a progression.
In September '83 I went on to do the FA of a grade V without pin placements but WITH a partner (although I soloed the first three pitches of Catharsis before Mark Pey arrived).
Then on 4/9/88 I made the FA of the Spearhead without any hammered anchors for aid (some pro bolts, some people say not enough and others say too many so I got it about right).
Since then pretty much every route I've put up has any needed hammered anchors fixed. The exception was when the Bird hijacked my rack and I tagged along in order to recover the scraps.
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