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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:09pm PT
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I have to agree completely with John. If Al Qaeda has proven anything it is that they are willing to lay low and wait for a long time to hit us as hard as they can. Some people seem eager to give Georgie credit whilst they where equally eager to condemn Clinton for not preventing 9/11. Knowing this, to look at the past 5 years as "evidence" is to be horribly short-sighted. Those whom deserve credit are those who lay the groundwork to end this conflict, not those who have (theoretically) prevented a short-term attack at the expense of the larger picture.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
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Once again Lois, your logic isn't very good. George didn't set up the FBI. George didn't set up the NSA. So far, from what I have seen of what we have stopped, the intel came about because of concerned citizens. That has nothing to do with George. Your logic is like Al gore saying he created the internet. George didn't create our protections, he inherited them.
Perhaps you need to turn this around. Why aren't you more willing to take a hard look at George. Why do you keep apologizing for George. The man screwed up and he lied which has led to the deaths of many people. Isn't that enought to boot him out of office. Why aren't you willing to hold him accountable? Because it is too hard?
You still haven't answered my question. What good has he done?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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LEB you could take a spoon of your own medicine when it comes to say, Al Gore. Also, niether John nor I are ranting on this subject, its pretty rationally clear to us.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:39pm PT
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lois you are ridiculous.
and(!) you still parrot the crap on faux news, even if you don't know it.
you ask where are all the competent leaders?
you voted against them baby.
the WTC was attacked by AQ in 1993 and again in 2001.
that's 8 years, and they were cozy in afganistan during that period. should clinton have attacked them? please remember that ya'll were having fits every time he lifted a pistol, didn't want to "nation build", remember?
fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here?
how about helping them recruit everywhere, and providing a rallying call for their cause?
dontchya think the money we are spending on the war in iraq wuld also go a long way toward protecting us here?
of course if we did that, how would haliburton and exxon/shell make a profit? especially if we tried to kick the oil addiction w/ a national effort to become efficient and move to alternative fuels? curious that we've never heard about that, do you think that came up in cheney's secret energy policy meetings? cause the distribution of oil reserves in iraq did, and that was pre 9/11, not that YOU will infer anything from that fact.
you are played like a fiddle, and you just skip happily along.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:43pm PT
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LEB, I'm sorry if amongst the shrieking anti-Gore rants regarding his environmental policy I missed you lamenting that he wasn't elected. My point was simply that get pretty worked up about that issue to be arguing for calm here, when most of the people talking with you are pretty relaxed.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:48pm PT
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How bad does a surgeon or a nurse have to get before you pull the plug on them?
Again you contribute something to George that might not be his doing.
How can you say he has done a good job with homeland security. All of the experts are complaining that there are huge holes in the system, especially in the ports. This is no different then the experts telling our government that we needed to harden the cockpit doors. But our leaders declined, because it was TOO expensive.
Too expensive right up until 9/11. In fact, up until 9/11 even Clinton was doing a good job on homeland defense, if we use your logic. I would rather have seen our government increase security at our ports and our borders then spend the money in Iraq. But now it will be TOO epensive because we have wasted so much money.
Just because we haven't been attacked doesn't mean George is doing a good job with homeland security. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't. It can't be proved. At least not with your arguments because there are variables that you haven't taken into consideration. This makes for a false conclusion. Maybe they haven't found the right target. Or maybe a citizen gave them up, or maybe our FBI is doing its job. This doesn't automatically point to George as the reason.
What other good has he done?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:52pm PT
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There are a lot of people in Iraq who have become very, very pissed off at the U.S. because of Bush's war. We in the U.S., have not paid the price for that but sooner or later, we will.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:00pm PT
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i'm not attacking your character, i'm attacking your intellect.
it would be interesting to go back and read your 1st few hundred political posts here on ST, you have never been one to think for yourself or connect any dots, and you constantly ask for long explanations of things that are easily understood by anyone w/ an internet connection and a mild level of interest.
today you are here saying that gW makes us all safe, and i am telling you that you are ridiculous; hey, at least i said you were skipping, rather than riding around on yer broom or whatever, ain't that nice of me?
don't they have knitting forums?
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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Nothing more then what I have suggested in the past. Write your congressman. This will give them the ammo and the courage to not hold back. It might get them off their butts. If enough people finally say, ENOUGH, then our politicians will DO something.
Especially coming from a Rebuplican who voted for George. Its no different then a surgeon telling another surgeon that he screwed up. It carries more weight then if the janitor tells him he screwed up. Right now, as a Democrat, when I write a Republican, they consider me to be the janitor.
Your letter will carry weight, Especially If your first line is...... I am a Republican, I voted for George. I think he screwed up. Please rein him in.
Then add something like.... Please get spending under control.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:12pm PT
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but you don't see me posting over on some knitting forum constantly asking people to explain the world to me, and then openly brushing aside any and all suggestions from that community on various books or other sources that i could edumucate myself with, wrt the subjects i am painstakingly asking them to explain to me at length, and saying that i am too busy to go do that, whilie i post on oldchicksthatknit.com all day and night, now do ya?
didn't think so.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:30pm PT
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"..when you are not interested in what someone has to say - please DO NOT READ THEIR POSTS."
LOL...I take it then that you are interested in Matts opinion. Since you read what he says....oops...just teasing Lois.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:30pm PT
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Matt would get his ass kicked over on the Knitting Forums.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:31pm PT
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and chaz might find someone that agrees w/ him about something
edit-
leb, many a STer has openly lamented the steady and certain spiral of any thread you become involved in, as good conversation quickly turns to tedious at best. perhaps you have not noticed this energy as you expertly turn that other cheek? but seriously, it's not as if you are that unaware, so don't pretend not to notice that many find you tiresome and irritating.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 03:33pm PT
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"Matt would get his ass kicked over on the Knitting Forums"
LOL. I am sure they would love to knitt you a cute little sailor suit Chaz. So you could pretend to be a tough guy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 04:01pm PT
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So? It's 15 years old.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 12, 2007 - 04:08pm PT
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TGT- that's great diatribe
what i hear is a laundry list of concrete examples in which ronnie raygun and bush sr. are/were responsible for the mess we are in now in iraq!
what you hear is a defense of bush jr. going to war w/ iraq.
isn't that funny?
EDIT-
(and this ties into the faux-news/lois angle too)
listen to the above youtube link, and then listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyz-XaeTUo&mode=related&search=
(remember what a pompus ass the president used to be, before everything he touched turned to coal?)
and then this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyz-XaeTUo&mode=related&search=
and of course we could go on and on, but who really believes this was anything but a big snow job? nobody, (not even lois i'll bet), thinks these guys really believed what they were telling us.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 12, 2007 - 04:16pm PT
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Isn't it funny you can't read the date stamp
and that,
Algordo is about 100lb lighter.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 12, 2007 - 04:31pm PT
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Great TGT. He was WRONG. Hillary was wrong. Kerry was wrong. What's your point exactly?
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jstan
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 07:55pm PT
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This is a pretty capable group of people here and we are addressing a question affecting the future of our nation, not to mention our personal futures. If we here in this forum cannot keep our attention focussed upon that which is important, are we not in very serious trouble?
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