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TwistedCrank
climber
Hell
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As long as those boys don't shave their heads, get butterfly tatoos on their wrists and check in and out of rehab then all is well.
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LittleCotton-er
Ice climber
provo
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2007 - 11:47am PT
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first, im sorry for the english, but i am from another country, southamerican. but what i said was true, yes, written fast and angry. sorry. but the main points are valid for many. a forien climber in a country not his own, has no place to change things. maybe not all can climb 6c with bad or no protecion. anyway, they didnt summit from what i was told by another party climbing up there. and all belays were used. all of this, was lied about in alpinist article. so what i was one to open this case with bad english!
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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"a forien climber in a country not his own, has no place to change things."
what he said...
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Neil
Gym climber
Here and there
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Imagine the hubris it would take to decide you're the one to go out and erase a historic, world-famous route and then report it to the media. You must consider yourself alpinism's "chosen one".
It seems that an entact compressor route is more of a guiding light on what bad style is than an erased compressor route. On the continuum of "alpine bad style", it acts as the bookend at the end of the continuum.
The intention is good, but rather than chopping a classic, I think it would do more for the cause to send a new route in super sweet style.
Cheers
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Now I feel bad. That was very narrow minded of me LittleCottoner. I hope you will accept my sincere apologies.
Your communication skills are obviously far superior to my own and I look forward to your continued contributions. If there is anything I can do to make this right please contact me.
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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"a forien climber in a country not his own, has no place to change things."
Nanda Devi comes to mind, but hey, who cares about something silly like that.
What I want to know is, how much was Josh's electric bill last year?
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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darnell - not sure i follow - are you referring to the tragic expedition ?
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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whoa...thank you, sorry for the drift...
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Just got off the phone with Donini who was in the middle of the frey.
No bolts were chopped.
Josh and Zack did not free the route they were trying to do.
The OP's post doesn't even touch on how juicy the scene actually was.
Neil's statement above speaks eloquently to the matter. The compressor route was installed by a failed, lying climber, so the question for the climbing community really is, "Is it better to leave the route standing as a monument poor alpine form or remove it to reveal the original beauty of one of the best and least attainable alpine summits on the planet?"
As Donini says, "The Compressor Route is the world's hardest Via Ferrata."
I love that guy.
Does Cerro Torre deserve to have a trade route on it that was put up in the poorest form imagineable? Should its historic status make it permanent? If you successfully climb the Compressor Route, have you really climbed Cerro Torre?
Mal
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Not following ya there Rich. Electric bill?
Oh yeah, Al Gore.
yeah, so, when is someone going to fly to the Nanda Devi glacier and chop that nuke out of the ice? That would be a real act of vision, one that matters a bit more. We all live downstream.
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jackass
climber
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Thanks for clearing that up Mal... now, if you would please start producing some offset nuts, you could clear up that mess too!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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well mal,
who makes the call? seems to me that whoever makes a call like that has ego and arrogance out the wazoo.
Who can claim to climb el cap fairly when they know just about every frickin thing there is to know? you gots your supertopo and you gots your rack, weather info.
the point is that one can take their "fair" means discussion a bit too far.
where is the line?
who decides?
while jim donini is certainly a guy with a valued opinion, is it really a via ferrata? for reals?
but then, freeing something wthout using the bolts gives one the right to get rid of the route that was established?
then of course we have something like the dihedral wall. where to free it required many bolts added to the original line?
the ethical conundrums of climbing are so f*#ked up these days. i am so freakin glad i dont live near a popular area. f*#k
and micah, i dont know your buds. did they want to chop that route? while your character evel is nice it sheds no lite on the sitrep at hand....
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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That's a bunch of BS Micah, There are a ton of hardcore climbers that you don't know about, because they climb and simply that's all. They don't report their FFA's, they don't go around spraying about what they are going to do. which in Josh and Zack case they did spray but didn't complete.
WTF skill and vision, more like Bevis and Butthead mentality (or little rich brats) where they take it upon themselves to Erase History. Sure it's all cool if you can do a boltless aid ascent. I know some ruffians that will come down and onsight Free climb the Compressor route. They have the best ground up Lead heads around. You will never see them chop a bolt though most likely they won't clip it though.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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ok -
1) now i'm confused...
2) i couldn't get on top of that thing with a helicopter...
3) this is still better than any of those political threads...
ears open, mouth shut,
-tom
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Wharton:
"So for me the southeast ridge still needs some attention."
-Alpinist website
Little did we know what he meant by this...
I'll state an opinion:
-Climbing Cerro Torre by fair means: visionary, bold. Has also been done via several other, new, routes, which makes a bit more of a statement.
-Chopping 30-year old bolts: pointless, self-aggandizing puffery. Hopefully this part is not true.
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quartziteflight
climber
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Mal,
Great post man. It's nice to see something informative come out of this.
Food for thought:
Is it always prudent to kow tow to a local lack of ethics? It seems to me that traveling climbers have had a substantial impact on "local" ethics.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mal, you're my friend but I gotta call you out on this. Its a slippery slope I'd rather not leave to monday morning quarterbacks even if they are masters of the game.
What would the art of many millenia look like if we all felt free to "correct" the creations of others?
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LittleCotton-er
Ice climber
provo
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2007 - 01:10pm PT
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piton ron, and others-
dont worry about judging my bad english, i am from elsewhere. no hard feelings or like that. but now i live in utah, and i have passports for my home country and america. i have known ethics in america and patagonia for a long time, so i get pissed when the truth is hidden under a bunch of hype spray. the two in question just want some exposure for something rad, but came up far short in the wrong way possible. i love the discusssion- it is what i wanted. for real climbers to know the real truth about the drama. for violence to come into this, is just stupid. bean does not own the town, nor do i, or you. all the locals have say there, and they say dont f*#k with it. if they want to come back and chop, is big problems for it.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Apologies to Joe Walsh.
If you look at your reflection in an ice covered hill,
What you see is only on the verglas.
When you try to see the meaning, hidden underneath,
The reason for your motivation can be deceiving.
Patagonia has a rocky reputation
You can feel it in the distance the deeper down you stare.
From up above it's hard to see but you know when you're there.
On the bottom words are shallow.
On the surface bolts are cheap.
You can only judge the distance by the free fall of your pee.
In the eyes of the COMPRESSOR.
In the eyes of the Compressor,
Use the bolts to save your sorry hide.
You can't hide from the drill (of the Compressor)
Don't you even try.
In the drill of the Compressor
You can't tell a lie,
You cannot tell a lie (to the Compressor)
Strip you down to size,
Naked as the day that you were born,
Naked as the day that you were born.
(Tremendous guitar work)
Take all the trauma, drama, comments,
The guilt and doubt and shame
The what if's and if only's
The shackles and the chains
The violence and aggresion,
The pettiness and scorn,
The jealousy and hatred,
The tempest and discord,
AND GIVE IT UP!
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