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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 10, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
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My notes from climbing the 2nd to last pitch of WoEML in 1993:
I headed up and soon had to call
for the pins. Eventually, a nice pocketed seam headed up a blankish gold
headwall, and I had fun with the technical placements (tapping small
stoppers, tied off pins). Just when it turned to an A4 RURP seam below the
belay, rivets appeared, which was a letdown and a relief at the same time.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
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"What actually works nicely, easily, and straightforwardly, however, is to hand-place an alumahead in the back of the "crack" and gently tap an angle-tip in just below the head. As you weight the head, it pulls down onto the tip of the piton, wedges up there, and is "cammed" via the tip of the piton. Because there is essentially no leverage "on the piton," as long as the piton catches at all, the head is the placement."
~ Madbolter
Damn! That's cool!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jan 10, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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There's a reason piton craft is called the dark art, and a lost art.
With that said :) ...
"What actually works nicely, easily, and straightforwardly, however, is to hand-place an alumahead in the back of the "crack" and gently tap an angle-tip in just below the head."
Horseshit on the emphasized word maddybolter! buahahahaha
Trouser ladle better be a part of the rig to scoop them drawers clean. lol
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jan 10, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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Slym, LOL, love that pic too!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 10, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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Horseshit on the emphasized word maddybolter! buahahahaha
Point taken. Heh
Loved your "trouser ladle" line! That was classic.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jan 10, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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Jim I just watched the full eight minute film. That was awesome. I thought it was just a small clip for my full feature 80s flick but it was actually a "short." Quite goofy in many ways but actually some really good footage. The scene where he rips all the pitons was actually kind of spooky!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 10, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
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I love the first piton-driving scene, where he's driving the baby angle eye-down in a vertical crack. Yup, everything we need to know about pitons.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Jan 11, 2018 - 12:35am PT
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For what it's worth......
We mostly used stacks in shallow pockets, by hammering a cut-off Leeper between two cut-off Cassins*. Luckily the offset eye on the Leeper allowed you to use a cut-off. We would also hammer two large angles (bongs) at right angles to each other, for wider cracks. The eye of the vertically placed angle could get in the way. Not sure if that counts as stacking?
*Take the cut-off tip of the Cassin (or whatever), drill a small hole, thread it and voila, you have a "Smashie". They were scary. I think that I only ever placed one.
Hanging out on 3 pin stacks, driven up vertically into the pockets on Bishop's Balcony.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jan 11, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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Cassin as a 'smashie' makes me think of a 'bashie'
Were all the Cassin's soft metal at that time?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
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Disappointed...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 11, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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I've stacked blades, blades and arrows too. You just do what you have to when nothing else seems 'good enough'.
You learn quicker if you are 30 ft out.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Jan 11, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
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As far as I know, all Cassins were made of that soft silvery metal.
Correction to my previous post. We always referred to this technique as "Nesting", not "Stacking". I wonder when and where the term stacking originated?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 11, 2018 - 11:13pm PT
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Pin stacking comes fairly naturally given sufficient desperation.
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Enzo
climber
California
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Jan 31, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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I remember leap-frogging stacks of 1 1/2" to 3" pitons on a wall in the dark. Had to do it by feel, so it's hard to describe.
Good luck ;-)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 31, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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Nested bongs, now that's something no one has mentioned.
I've done some of these low down on the Gold Wall WAY back in the day, and it wasn't conducive to confidence. The pitch was dirty and grungy and awkward and nasty in every conceivable way. After I got to the belay I was so disheartened over the length of time it took we bailed. I was climbing with Bruce Price, who drove the school bus from the Valley to Mariposa, who'd been to the Dolomites and had lots of wall experience but none placing bong stacks.
There was the pitch Roger mentioned somewhere below Sous le Toit ledge and it needed a constant supply of 1.25" angles placed in a very sandy crack. We had half a dozen, including one in the belay anchor below me. I had to get real frisky with inventive placements and even called on Doug Ross to send up the anchor pin.
I always coveted the North Face of HCR, first done in 1960 by KAMPS, CHOUINARD and PRATT, who avoided the roofs on the last two pitches, which were later climbed successfully by PRATT and HENNEK. The rack called for 45-50 pins from KBs up to 3" bongs for a wall only 1,000' high. I never got on that route, unfortunately.
Oddly, in all my nailing, I never used a single Leeper pin, though I had a half-dozen in my possession. Just never needed them.
You learn best by doing, not by asking, BTW.
Edit: Hamie did mention placing two bongs crosswise in wide cracks. I overlooked his post, apparently, or forgot it was there.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 31, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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^^^ Spot on, imo, especially: "...disdained heading except under duress as a mark of a hack."
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that old guy
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 31, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
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back in the day, had a little success using Lepers where I coulda stacked. It works up to about 45 degrees off the horizontal, along the line of the hook.. Lepers get more sketchy the more vertical they are placed. Thank God I got over that habit!!!
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Jan 31, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
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Mouse says "Nested bongs, now that's something that no one has mentioned."
Please read my post of Jan 11,on this thread.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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I didn't't read the entire tread...forgive me...its rare that it would stop you...I never worry about it but if needed you just think geometry. Maybe a little physics? I guess thats part of the game???
Sheesh just use your imagination?
Good luck!
S....
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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i agree with all the above ... just don't forget to tie all the eyes together with keepers so you don't lose everything when it all comes apart
also being tired of all the fiddling is why we invented mashies and bashies ... various small blocks of aluminum with a hole in the middle for a wire (we used parachute cord and had to be careful not to cut it with the hammer)
the trick is to mash it mercilessly into the hole ... it's pretty amazing how well you can get them to grip in a shallow depression where nothing else will stick
obviously copperheads are the same idea, except mashes can be about any size
the polite thing to do is leave them there for the next person
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