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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
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Skidding is for n00b's
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 06:43pm PT
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^^^^ Just like in auto racing - if yer skidding yer not in control, or show-boating.
Who in their right mind can argue against horses and mules being the most destructive?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
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Incorporating bike obstacles when I put a trail in is mandatory
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Dec 17, 2017 - 07:39pm PT
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Americans need access to their wilderness...use is great, and use has some impact. If this passes, we will have to see what this impact is. Super busy hiking trails probably don't need the speedy bikes and more crowding. Out there isolated areas that have been closed to " preserve" them from the few visitors that would visit anyways...they should never have been closed in the first place. It's a mixed bag for sure. Wierd sh#t seems to go down almost daily with our present leaders. ....much is it way more frightening to me then bikes on hiking trails.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
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Its not the bikes on trails I object to its the extension of single day access much farther into the wilderness with way more people.
Hmmm.... Interesting point, never thought of that.
Also worth noting that the proposed law is case by case and up to land managers, not a blanket rule. I doubt any wilderness in CA would be opened up to bikes, it's probably more for those recent wilderness designations that took away popular bike riding areas.
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Dec 17, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
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I'm not familiar with this bill, but previous bike-in-wilderness proposals have been TO LET LOCAL USFS FIELD OFFICES DECIDE... where folks actually using the trails have input. Many bike trails in Montana (and elsewhere) were made illegal with the recent designations. In CA, areas such as the White Mts would be prime for Mt. bike access (on existing trails/mining roads). No conflicts with hikers there. No one reasonable is proposing the Cathedral Lake or Bishop Pass trail here.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Dec 17, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
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Local control actually seems reasonable for bikes (less so for mining...). For example, the Pecos Wilderness contains a network of trails that would be great for bikes, but they are currently falling into disrepair, mostly used by people's cattle, if at all. I'm not sure who would be against a local rule change.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 17, 2017 - 10:15pm PT
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Who in their right mind can argue against horses and mules being the most destructive?
Those who repair trails.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 17, 2017 - 10:45pm PT
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I did trail work for the green gestapo...Mule trains would destroy a section of trail that we had just built...For what...? So some environmental trustafari could pack his nuclear family 20 miles into the wilderness for the ultimate back-country fantasy...? Talk about a waste of taxpayers dollars...The case by case scenario seems like a good approach... like i said most of the gonzo downhill dick-wads that own season passes to a ski lift area aren't going to be able to pedal up a steep Eastern Sierra canyon...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 17, 2017 - 11:10pm PT
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mtn bikes in wilderness doesn't bother me, so long as they have their own trails and all new trails must under go a review and approval process that meet certain criteria that are reasonable for that area.
As such, they would not be allowed to coop existing backcountry hiking trails in the Sierra.
Some areas outside the Sierra that have wilderness designations would be easier to ride, both lower in elevation and less technical and less steep terrain. So as a national policy, you can't rely on 'most chuffers won't even make it over Kearsarge Pass'...
But McClintock is still a wad.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Dec 18, 2017 - 07:36am PT
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This is worth thinking about:
This has ended up making enemies of users that should be natural allies in the defense of public lands and preservation.
I've seen Wilderness designation shut down access on perfectly good dirt roads, for example, routes that by any reasonable definition should be fine for mtn. bikes. I think a case-by-case consideration should be fine. Get some input, engage the community. This could easily be a win-win.
BAd
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Dec 18, 2017 - 07:48am PT
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Several posters here have indicated that perhaps allowing mtn bikes on wilderness area trails aught to be done on a case-by-case basis. To me this makes a lot of sense. I have been to several wilderness areas that included land that formerly was part of an old, historic mining district and contained old miners roads that easily could accommodate mtn bikes (and some did before wilderness area designation). I have always been in favor of wilderness areas but have noted over the years that drawing their boundaries can get quite arbitrary to include acreage that does not really fit into a true definition of wilderness (see above comment on old mining areas). Also, in my experience, mtn bikes do less damage than pack trains of horses and/or mules. While it is true that some gonzo bikers go way too fast for trail conditions and trail user density, that, to my mind, is a different topic about safe and mature behavior in shared space.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 18, 2017 - 08:15am PT
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Brodie got nuthin' on Moth_DonutDawg Dug
Bystander was said to have observed, "you can't get there from here without a permit"!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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TwistedCrank
climber
Released into general population, Idaho
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Dec 18, 2017 - 10:23am PT
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A bike in every wilderness, a gun in every Camelback.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Dec 18, 2017 - 10:27am PT
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Hey Ken, you ever hear of the Bob Marshall wilderness? Ever been there?
I am not for bikes in all or even most of them. However, I believe bikes can easily be accommodated in a few. Wilderness is mostly a state of human mind. There are other designations that preserve habitat, maintain roadless characteristics and do not allow extracting practices.
I spend a lot of my free air time in wilderness areas in MT and ID. In my short time living here I have seen a fair amount of degradation of these areas (as in the zones close to TH's and lakes and streams) that seem to most likely be a result of frikkin hiking guide books and the INTERNET. Wilderness is a state of mind so I think as humans it is better to get over oneself. For example, an AT binding, wall tents, kitchens, saddles, etc. etc. are allowed. Arguably the first human created mechanized tool is the pivot. blah, blah.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Dec 18, 2017 - 10:38am PT
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I'll offer up another example of where being able to make case-by-case exemptions would make sense:
The Mt. Olympus Wilderness on the east side of SLC runs pretty much right up to the houses of the SLC foothill suburbs. Not scattered houses, but fairly dense suburbs. That part of that Wilderness doesn't really fit any reasonable definition of wilderness. It's less than 1/4 mile from the east side freeway.
For many years there have been efforts to extend the Bonneville Shoreline Trail thru this area. The BST is a wide multi-user trail. Walkers, bikes, strollers, dogs, etc. Not even remotely a wilderness trail. Currently you couldn't extend that trail through the Mt Olympus area without diverting all the bikes and strollers on to city streets, which kind of negates the purpose of this kind of trail.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 18, 2017 - 11:45am PT
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As a pretty avid biker, I generally agree with most who have posted here about not granting absolute authority but not outright denying it either. As much as I love getting out into remote areas on the bike, I also believe that it's not appropriate for some wilderness areas. It's not that I think bikers cause more impact than some other users. It's just that bikers are people, and people cause impact. Inconsiderate people cause far more impact. Some of that is based upon perceived impact. Some if it is based upon my own observations of other riders.
I'm often up in the Camp Nelson area near the Needles, which has become a popular riding area. Lots of long downhill singletrack, some of it through Sequoia groves and a highway running parallel to it that let's the slackers avoid having to earn their downhill. One trail, the Nelson Trail, has long been popular with hikers but has become equally popular with bikers. They have full DH rigs, full face helmets, shin guards, etc., and they blow down this narrow singletrack like it's the X Games. No etiquette, no concern for safety of other user. Total a-holes. Unless it's the dead of midweek or off season, I won't take my kids on that anymore. Just way too sketchy. I'd hate to see place I love in the Sierra denigrade into that. As awesome as I think it would be to bike back into some remote area and blow out same day without trashing my feet and knees, I know I can still get back there; it'll just be without my bike.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 18, 2017 - 11:53am PT
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I've worked the Nelson Trail. Amazing damage, and we had to take special precautions to work there safely.(lotta signage that we were there)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 18, 2017 - 11:56am PT
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I guess I just have trouble with the concept of bicycles, which I think of as a modern thing, coinciding with wilderness, designed in concept to be primordial, before white civilization started entering it.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Dec 18, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
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I guess I just have trouble with the concept of bicycles
So get over yourself. You ever see the diesel trucks and 50' trailers at the TH, 15' wide deep rutted trails for almost their entirety. The ruts, the off trail damage exist along the length of trails in the Bob. The large packer camps suck. Bikes cover the same ground that most pack trains cover in 1/4 of the time. So, most bikeers don't take craps all over the place, burn wood that should be naturally recycled back into the soil, create campsite zones in otherwise pristine areas. The Bob is full of white man crap as are other MT, ID, WY, OR, & WA wildernass zones. Just a thought...Maybe think about it with some humble headwear, challenge yourself and maybe consider others.
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