Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:27am PT
|
Callie is spot on. The world is changing this year. The culture is surging forward to better place. This move by her is a big part of it.
Men who abuse women are being called out and made to pay. This needs to continue.
Those who can't see it have hit an intellectual ceiling of their own creation and perhaps inability to face the fact that they are part of the problem.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:40am PT
|
I didn't realize Callie was a poster here. I assumed this was a Ken m political thread with a link to a random article...
|
|
Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:44am PT
|
Dr. Callie = Crimpergirl
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:53am PT
|
I assumed this was a Ken m political thread with a link to a random article...
you assume a lot, and often
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:58am PT
|
That's pretty childish ed. I would expect more out of a man of your intellect
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 12:07pm PT
|
Current America has a culture of lies, manipulation and denial. The master of the game has been chosen to president. The president is a symptom of the cultural disease, as is Clinton - the children of Bernard de Mandeville...
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
|
"Deserved Fame"
No mention in this curriculum vitae of climbing. That is not where one normally finds interests outside of one's profession. You look to a resume for that, which is generally much shorter than the CV.
http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/SPA/FacultyStaff/Faculty/Pages/CallieRennison.aspx
This woman has more talent than most of you in her left thumb than you have in your entire body (Thank you, Fritz, for that). I'm pretty sure she's laughing her ass off at some of the BS going down on this thread.
You folks sure know how to waste your time, I'm tellin ya.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 01:56pm PT
|
Ekat nailed it, I have nothing to add except anyone looking for an argument might consider first re-reading the link in the first post and reflecting on it some more: "GoodF*#kingGod! How can something this well written be misconstrued so badly? Only on TheTaco!
FAK!
Crimpie, you are incredible!"
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 02:15pm PT
|
Sex and the withholding of it can be, and often is, a tool for gaining power.
Men are really that simple? They’ll grovel if they don’t get sex? Glad the men I’ve known are more complicated than that.
Susan
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
|
Women manipulate men with sex all the time, and have for all time.
Victims? I’m very sorry for their gullibility.
Susan
|
|
Krease
Gym climber
the inferno
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 05:03pm PT
|
Only weak mem allow themselves to be manipulated by sex. Jesus Fuking Christ, playing up to stereotypes much? You have to rise about evolutionary drive at some point, for fuks sake.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
|
Yes, but down thru history powerful men have been weak in this regard....Cleopatra comes to mind. If the bible is your thing the allegory of Adam and Eve says it all.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
|
...
yeah but Brock fingered an unconscious girl, so, f*#k him. Maybe send hate mail that way?
|
|
Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:04pm PT
|
Is the idea that some women might provide or withhold sex to gain some power, really being suggested as equivalent to, or a justification for some men abusing their power to gain sex?
|
|
murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2017 - 11:20pm PT
|
Right on, Callie!
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2017 - 01:23am PT
|
Wow, I didn't click on this thread at first, but surfing the Taco Stand I was curious.
I did not (edit) know by the thread head it was about such a topic. Glad I clicked on and read the link that Ken M posted. (I have to say, good professional work Callie.)
A lot of "interesting" posts on this thread. Some to reflect upon.
Firstly a disclaimer, I am a liberal raised by a widowed mother of four children (five but one sister died of polio at age seven in 1952, I was born in '56) who was one of the first females in the dental profession in West Virginia. My mother was not a feminist but was brought up to believe in equality across all sectors - gender, ethnic, religion, etc.
My mother brought her children up that way as well.
So I may have a sort of bias to a woman's point of view, being raised by one (I was five months old when my dad died, mom never remarried), but if there is a bias it is just a small one, if that.
About the metoo campaign, it is good in many ways but there could be a backlash if there are too many false accusations, which may then discredit those with a genuine "case". I will agree to a small extent to Kevin's assertion that sometimes it may be "presumed guilty before innocence".
And I will never acquiesce to the "sometimes the innocent have to be sacrificed for the better". An innocent person should not have to pay the price of the guilty.
But there is a cultural change and Callie and others are helping to facilitate that change, for the better, but careful paths need to be tread.
There have been some sensible posts on this thread (Ed and Bad Climber are just two that come to mind, and Donini as well)
I think that Happiegrrrl2's post of Dec 10 07:00am PT is a very sensible one for people of both genders to follow. Her advice/suggestions...
For example...
groups for after work cool-down drinks and LEAVING BEFORE it comes down to just oneself with another person,
Yes, one Thursday evening, down at the pub, just two of us from the office were left. The bookkeeper/accountant and I, We were both intoxicated. She started talking about sex, I had been single and lonely for years. We both decided, why not. I went into the gent's toilets to buy some condoms (yes, now in Ireland, there are vending machines in the men's loo, also in the women's as I am told. What a change from 20 or so years ago. One used to have to go to Northern Ireland to buy contraceptives. Not that I ever did, I was a celibate 'monk' for years, hah hah, not that I am religious).
We got in to the taxi to head to my flat in Dun Laoghaire. Kissing, fondling each other. Then I realized, this ain't right, this is not me. She is drunk, so am I.
I stopped the cab at Merrion Square, got out, paid the taxi man (I knew, a cab firm we used for company purposes) to take said colleague home and caught a cab myself.
So, I extricated myself from what could have been a difficult situation "down the road". Neither of us ever spoke of it again. (Yet, people in the office, a small magazine, knew. The barman at the pub had loose lips apparently, as he saw us getting quite 'close'.)
So Happiegrrrl2's advice is sound. Regardless of gender, if one finds oneself in a possible difficult situation, get out.
I can honestly say with full confidence I have never taken advantage of anybody. I was brought up that way. And there have been time when my morals could have been compromised, but never were, I made sure of that. I hark back to my mom's words: "Respect people, and you will get respect."
And for those who say that this thread may generate reasonable thought on the issue, I agree.
EDIT
Storytelling is my love and trade at times. I do not mind disclosing certain personal things if it will advance the story and dialogue. I have nothing to hide, but fear itself.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2017 - 02:51am PT
|
From President John F. Kennedy's address at the Free University of Berlin (26 June 1963)
The duty of the scholar, of the educated man, of the man or woman whom society has developed talents in, the duty of that man or woman is to help build the society which has made their own advancement possible.
What does truth require? It requires us to face the facts as they are, not to involve ourselves in self-deception; to refuse to think merely in slogans. [...] let us deal with the realities as they actually are, not as they might have been, and not as we wish they were.
[...]
The scholar, the teacher, the intellectual, have a higher duty than any of the others, for society has trained you to think as well as do.
Crimpie, your work is much appreciated. Thank you.
Mouse from Merced
|
|
Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2017 - 06:21am PT
|
#metoo
You might notice that a large percentage of people who posted with the hashtag when it was in it's ascent in social media included some reference examples of what they had endured.
What the F*#K is the matter with you people? You are freaking out that women have HAD ENOUGH?????? For F*#K's SAKE.
I agree that a man will be damaged by false accusations. NO ONE would dispute that fact. POINT TAKEN.
What "it seems" some are contending is that women must be silenced on the topic of molestation, harrassment, abuse, rape, because of the potential a man, some man, somewhere, could be falsely accused.
DO YOU SEE how ABSURD that is??????
As for "more damaged" - I'd like to have some examples - CONCRETE and FACTUAL that have ACTUALLY HAPPENED. They needn't be examples the poster has personally experienced(privacy due, of course). But please don't make up any thing you post.
To start things off, I'll list some of the damages to my life, as a female who can - I really can - list more than 100 instances ofhaving experienced sexual tresspass. Add in intimidation, and the number would be only a little more, as I learned by the age of six to limit access to my person from those I considered "risky."
List - and maybe I will edit and add, because otherwise I would be here all day and that would be a time suck I don't care to engage in.
 As I said, by the age of six, I was CONSCIOUSLY "limiting access." That meant that for the last FORTY-NINE YEARS, I have had either in the front of my mind, or as a program running in the background, an awareness of who is in the room, who is in my immediate space, who is "out there on the horizon" and what does it seem like they are thinking.
I made a CONSCIOUS decision to NOT HAVE CHILDREN soon after I began menstruating, because I did not feel I could confidently protect my child from being abused. I FORFEITED motherhood - one of the most joyful experiences ANY person has in life. One of the GREATEST learning experiences. One of the most intense ways of giving and receiving love.
(edit)I was 38 when I finally felt I could safely protect a child. 38 and now I have to learn how to become part of a relationship that might include children. Surprise - there are a hell of a lot of steps that, at least healthfully, go down before pushing baby in a baby carriage. Look in the mirror one day and see just how much damage has been repaired, yet how much more work to go. "Will I make it before I hit menopause?" Unknown, at the time, and hopes dwindling each year. Answer has arrived, by the way. Though I could still be a step mother, and yes - I DO hope for that, if it comes to pass. I am 55 years old and still wondering if some day I may experience motherhood
I began gaining f*#king weight to "become unappealing," at the age of seventeen. To this day, I struggle with making the commitment to lose and be more healthy. It is almost like my spirit was broken, and the effort to mend that part of it has been put on hold time and time again.
I drank
I used pot daily, and ALL day, from the age of 14 to 21
I dress in baggy clothing. The times I have worn attractive dress, even though I am still careful not to be too sexually revealing, the compliments I receive - though appreciated - are a reminder of how "unnoticed" I go for the more than 99% of the rest of the time, because why? Because I am not "on display????? WAT IS WRONG WITH ME AS SIMPLY A PERSON? Isn't my wit enough? My kindness? My intelligence and sense of humor? My value as an artist? My ability to throw down one hell of a fest when I host a party? And guess what - I actually don't have any problem having sex and have been told very positive things about the experiences people have had with me. But because SOME men act like pigs if you display so much as an inkling of sexuality, it just became easier to hide it. I had HOPED, all these years, that some guys would see my essence, get to know me, find out I am likeable as a woman.... but year after year I watch my other single, and newly single friends meet, fall in love, marry. THANK GOD I don't suffer the loneliness that I see some people endure when they are "out of relationship." I have listened to people talk about suicide, they feel life is so unworth living alone.
There are more "damages." Like I said - I don't want to go on and on. That was just a five minute barf-out of words, and I have a nice day ahead of me which I don't want to have "taken down" by the emotional exhaustion that can come with "dwelling too much."
So - about the damages men who have been falsely accused have. Again - please don't post "in theory" examples. I gave of myself - not "some women might feel" instances. Go on now - it actually might help "us" understand you better, if you can express how you have been formed as a vessel of life. We might just see those chips and cracks as intrinsic beauty rather than flaws.
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2017 - 06:27am PT
|
If someone makes a move, and the other person consents, regardless of the circumstances, there's an ethical, or on site problem perhaps, in the workplace, but no legal problem
Well that makes no sense. So someone is holding a knife to my neck or threatening my child in the next room and I consent to the “move” I haven’t been raped. How novel.
Susan
|
|
tolerant
Trad climber
seige pitch 1
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2017 - 06:29am PT
|
happie try to disregard willy.
he's vitriol and afraid. very difficult to
work with his kind.
putin likes him.
because scared prey is easy to manipulate into a cage.
thanks happie.
thanks callie.
please know and find comfort in the fact
that there are many men of courage and conviction
that are advocating for the equal treatment and respect (imagine that!)
of women.
i'm a logger in a hick town, and i ran an add promising a percentage of my income to communities threatened by the disease shooting through the veins of american culture right now.
i give to the gay community. i give to womens advocacy groups. i give to immigrants and refugees.
and you can't believe how well this community received and reciprocated my add. i won tons of customers. and guess what?
many of them would tip me a few hundred over the top, which we both agreed i'd spread laterally, to the groups referenced above.
people like wilmot are dissolving from the inside out; that acrid sensation within their hearts and mouths must taste horrible.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!