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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 31, 2017 - 09:12am PT
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And I need that cardio. Without it, my food addiction starts contributing to my back pain...
you might want to look into this, as I'm not sure that cardio does what you think it does... certainly increased physical activity with constant food intake will result in weight loss (to a point).
I had always thought this cadio-weight connection was true, but I realized that when I was doing strength training that I lost weight much quicker than with a similar amount of cardio.
Managing weight is more about managing what you eat then exercising. The human physiology and behavior is well adapted to food scarcity, which was more the normal experience 10,000 years ago. I find that when I'm climbing a lot I don't have the opportunity to eat as much, and taking 3 days a week like that (not that I'm up to it right now) can make a significant dent in calorie intake. While the exercise helps, the unavailablity of food is probably the bigger effect.
When hiking the JMT last summer with my daughter the same thing happened, basically the 2500 Cal/day we took didn't get eaten, more like 2000 Cal/day, and the days were consistently strenuous (but not too much), and happened without a lot of food intake (for me). In 8 days I only lost 5 pounds (works out to roughly -437 Cal/day ). It would be interesting to see what the weight difference would be if I went on a diet of 2000 Cal/day not on the trail.
Probably wouldn't be possible because of the ubiquitous availability of food, and human nature.
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robert jones
Trad climber
santa cruz,ca
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Jul 31, 2017 - 09:53am PT
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The info below may be counter intuitive to much of what you have learned but if you watch their videos, read their articles, and in general research that train of thought I think you will come out of your current situation stronger and in less pain if any.
Dr. Austin Baraki
June 25 ·
I remember this guy showing up a full 2 hours early to our workshop at @untamedstrength to start his daily mobility routine. I let him do his thing, we got through the workshop, and a few days later I received an email from him asking for advice:
He had been experiencing low back pain for 2 years associated with tingling in his right toe. He got MRI which showed an L4/L5 disc bulge. With this finding at age 22, he was terrified. He tried months of physical therapy, chiropractic treatment, massages, and saw multiple physicians who said his pain was discogenic, and aggravated by “tightness” in the hamstrings and lower body. He wrote, “when I mentioned I do mobility work for 90 mins a day, they had no further advice for me.” They told him he would have to just live with his pain.
After our workshop he decided to try our advice, get some coaching, and focus on training. Today, about four months later, I received a follow-up message:
“It's only after implementing all your suggestions have I truly realized how right you guys were. Today I managed to squat 315x5x3, which has always been a long time goal of mine, but now after understanding where SS is coming from, I realize I have a lot more in me and hopefully 405 will be on the bar soon.
“I know last time I was very concerned about my back pain, but you mentioned that it was a non-issue and I should focus on getting my back strong. I listened to some of your podcasts and realized that what you guys were saying made more sense than anything I had tried before. Funnily enough, now, nothing makes my back feel better than a heavy set of squats or deadlifts - rather than stretching or mobility work.
“Anyways just wanted to say thanks again for your advice in January. It's really helped me turn my training around and stop worrying so much about my back. I feel as though everything "makes sense" to me now, and this approach just simply works better than anything I've tried before.”
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2017 - 09:58am PT
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"certainly increased physical activity with constant food intake will result in weight loss (to a point)."
I was always under the impression that when one's physical activity goes down, without a decrease in food intake, weight gain is the natural course. I've experienced this first hand as well.
So...if I start at x level of physical activity, and now down to y, then I'm on the bad end of the equation from where I see it.
And although pure cardio isn't the answer, cardio is something I need to constantly maintain, or I won't be able to make those 20 min approaches. I have to find a way to integrate working out my lungs, and heart that is close enough to hiking uphill with pack weight, maintaining higher heart rate for more than 20min...without getting into the water.
We'll see!
Cheers
LS
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 31, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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Duncan is right, and studies prove it. For example a number of middle aged adults were MRI'd. Some had back pain and some did not. In many cases the one's with pain had pretty good looking MRI's and those without had terrible looking backs. I did a workshop with Tom Meyers a couple years ago. One of his basic principles is "never chase the pain. In other words the source of the pain is often not where we feel it.
But, I'll stand by my assertion that developing true core strength, not simply a strong abdominus rectus (six pack,) but rather as I described above, can really help with many cases of back pain. I've seen it over and over again. Of course I'm not suggesting to jump into some sort of exercise program while you're in pain. But when your pain subsides it's something to think about.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 31, 2017 - 10:16am PT
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Disc bulges don’t cause back pain, they are normal age-related changes
Duncan is actually completely incorrect as they make the mistaken assumption of thinking herniated discs are only caused by age related changes
I have had doctors try and tell me the same- that they have patients with similar back issues who report no pain. Of course those patients are elderly and their back issues were not caused by injury/overuse. It's completely different.
I even had a doctor try and tell me that "you may or may not be experiencing pain"
I wanted to punch him in the face and tell him the same
Edit- also if a patient is not reporting back pain- then why did they get an MRI?
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 31, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
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"I know what's wrong. Way back in the day, I had a back injury that changed my life. The second thing the doc told me was that I'd be managing a compromised back for the rest of my life."
Those kind of diagnoses from a medical authority figure do more to perpetuate chronic pain syndromes. Once you've been set up by an authority figure like that the placebo/naocebo effect will keep the pain syndrome going and going and going. Real counterproductive handing out diagnoses like that.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 31, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
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These folks fix backs. It's their specialty.http://iyisf.org/
Iyengar Yoga Institute of San Francisco.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 31, 2017 - 01:55pm PT
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unfortuently the spine does not heal and there is no "fixing" a damaged spine.
As ksolem and others have posted the best you can do is strengthen the surrounding muscles in order to provide the support your back needs after losing the natural support a healthy spine provides
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
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:)
Boy do I know that there's no 'fixing' backs!
I DID just hear an ad about the benefits of SUP for people like me... ;)
If only it didn't involve water..
Cheers
LS
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 31, 2017 - 02:20pm PT
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wow, thanks for correcting me on that. you are SO smart and your reading comprehension is superb.
The institute can HELP you with your back and strengthen it too. Just like C. wilmot mentioned above.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2017 - 02:24pm PT
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Thanks TT
this sounds like it has a good chance of being pain free.
So funny that this exercise looks very much like a controlled pelvic thrust...
;)
I'd surmise that pelvic thrust strengthening exercises are a good thing, bad back or no....!
Cheers
LS
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 31, 2017 - 06:27pm PT
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My magic cure was lots of rest (including quitting my stand-all-day job until there was no more severe pain), then lots of SUP, and avoiding most of the hyperextending stretches that others' suggested. YMMV, of course, and it helps to like water.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 31, 2017 - 11:09pm PT
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There's one theory that suggests that LBP is the result of a small reduction in oxygen being sent to the nerves, muscles and tendons in the extremities by the central nervous system, a programmed behavior that is learned incidentally, sometimes following a traumatic injury. That's why LBP often develops following a death in the family, a divorce, a car wreck, a financial crisis etc etc. etc. Any one of the 44 life stress events classified by Holmes-Rahe in their classic study in the 1960s. Definitely something neurological and mind-body. The impingement due to bulging discs just doesn't hold water (so to speak) and has been disproven time and again in a number of double-blind studies. The real cause of LBP is still very much subject to debate despite anything an orthopedic surgeon might tell you.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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^^a cause, not the cause.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2017 - 08:07am PT
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I gotta say guys, there's a point when Pain management is constant for 168+ consecutive hours, and 'why' is not the top thought in my head.
Rather- how to I stop feeling all of my muscles slowly disintegrate because the only relief is found while completely still flat on my back.
And how to avoid boredom induced pastry binges...
I read an article that aerobic exercise is keeps the brain on point, as well as the physical benefits.
Definitely have to find something besides walking to fill that gap...
Cheers!
LS
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I bet Chinese peasants or Africans don't get LBP.
It's a FWL - First World Luxury which I've luxuriated in forever.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Time to switch your food addiction to whole food plant based, like some delicious blueberries, figs, melons, etc. Think of this current problem situation as an opportunity to make some needed changes.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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The old wheat grass stereotype. Good one Dingus. I'll stick to delicious fruit, but thanks anyway.
And you forgot the:
Cheers!
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monolith
climber
state of being
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LOL, the very wise pastry addiction. And no, greens don't provide much calories and can't define a healthy diet. They are often soaked in oil as well.
And no, the suggestion wasn't for the back problem, but to work on something else.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Helped out a couple with a blown tranny yesterday way up by the Bristlecones. Dood couldn't have cared less. He's 39 and in remission from leukemia. Blown tranny? Pffft! BFD!
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