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James Wilcox
Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
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Feb 28, 2017 - 09:16am PT
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We have an off-grid cabin on the Eastside.
I built our own solar system. I used a company called Northern Arizona Wind and Sun for many of the items. The actual panels I got off Amazon when a company had a special. You need to calculate your expected elect. needs and design a system accordingly. Some things, like panels, you can just add more if needed. Same with batteries. Other items may need to be replaced if you need to upgrade. I'd recommend getting components that will allow for expanding the system down the line if needed. Our solar isn't huge, but good for lighting(all LED) and recharging electronics. Things like microwaves just aren't a reality without a pretty large battery bank. Solar batteries and regular 12v car batteries aren't the same. The Trojan 105RE is a decent storage battery for the price.
We have a Dometic-Servel refrigerator. Smallish, but reliable and thrifty on propane. We bought a used 120 gallon propane tank from Amerigas. The price was equal to renting a tank for two years. We get it filled only when needed. So no regular expense.
We have two generators. The mainstay is the Honda 3000. Very quiet and fuel efficient.It's quieter than than Honda 2000. We have a Honda 5000 when we need watts, but it's a gas pig compared to the 3000, and many times louder. Any generator with a Briggs & Stratton engine will be loud and not great on gas. Imho.
I'd make friends with a few of the neighbors you have and see what they did. Every region offers different pluses and minuses to tackling issues. Some of your neighbors will have over-kill systems(spent too much) while others will be pretty "Mcgyver". you can probably find a happy medium after talking to a few.
Good luck. It should be fun !
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 28, 2017 - 09:25am PT
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Does yer land have a hill? If so build a track. Then work out each day hauling rocks to the
top and put them in a cart. At night release the cart and it will roll downhill powering yer generator.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 28, 2017 - 09:31am PT
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Hey Albatross-
I commend and am envious of your decision!
You mentioned straw bale but have you considered an Earthship?
With Flag being an interstate town, you could get heaps of tires for free.
And you know enough aid climbers that beer bottles wouldn't be a problem :-)
Alternative structures are where it's at for me.
Always figured I'd have to use a combo of harvesting and trucking water.
How bout poopies? Composting toilet?
Good luck man, what a labor of love.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 28, 2017 - 09:39am PT
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How bout poopies? Composting toilet?
Those things can be a chore. More like a science project. We had one in Alaska and they don't work well when the temps get low. Then there was the incinolet and the smell of burning poop, or the outhouses where there is barely enough dirt to cover the bedrock. Yeah, power and water are important but so is dealing with the poo. That's the "big three" when you are making an abode.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Feb 28, 2017 - 09:50am PT
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Yes,, composted don't work for s%$# when cold...damn, why does the incinolet smell so much??
Personally i don't like earthships,,,generally they get pretty hot and kinda give the tube living effect for me
We built a straw bale/timber frame/ adobe deal...NO, most people don't know what they are talking about when it comes to straw...because most haven't actually done it....beware.
It's not easy or quick or convenient..of course the results ca be awesome
i don't know the exact area your in but dare I mention zoning ?
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2017 - 09:52am PT
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So many great comments and suggestions (except for you Vitaliy I still think you are an arrogant bully).
I already harvest much of my food (elk and fish) and firewood, it makes sense to move on to harvesting the power of the sun. I see quite a few windmills in the area in this high wind area.
There are county zoning laws but from what I understand it is fairly lax. I intend to do all of the building myself with the help of more talented friends. Am not in a huge rush to begin construction on the home, as someone suggested I intend to meet a few more of the neighbors to see what works in the area.
The wildlife water catchments mentioned are exactly what my friends employ, they haven't hauled water in decades. My parcel is flat so it might be more of a challenge.
Jon Beck I may take you up on that offer for a couple panels, are you coming out to the Sedona festival?
For now it's an outhouse but eventually may lead up to a compost toilet.
Folks interested in astronomy may want to google "Roden Crater", can't wait to visit this neighbors work.
So many different options to consider its overwhelming at times, but a greatly exciting process. Thank you everyone for the ideas.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 28, 2017 - 10:24am PT
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Does yer land have a hill? If so build a track. Then work out each day hauling rocks to the
top and put them in a cart. At night release the cart and it will roll downhill powering yer generator.
Somehow that appeals to me....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 28, 2017 - 10:28am PT
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Trillions of watts worth of sunlight falls to the ground all around the world for free. Makes sense to pick some of it up.
Can't have a solar spill... Nobody will ever declare war on the sun.... etc... lots of reasons to love sun in the desert.
Keep us appraised of your progress... sounds fun.
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Feb 28, 2017 - 10:30am PT
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Keep in mind that it is not recommended to add new batteries to an older battery bank, so start bigger than you need. Panels can be added easily, but you would be surprised how quickly they will fill up the bank!
LED lightning-no brainer
slabbo's comments seem spot on, a cheap inverter or cheap charge controller are just that. I spent the dough, and haven't had to fiddle with anything since installation 6 years ago.
Happie girl also had a key point. Adjust your lifestyle to require less power. its a package deal
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Feb 28, 2017 - 10:57am PT
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Ya,, with batteries, spend the money for trojan, you won't be disappointed.
Also, it's way cheap to get bigger panels now. 250 watt panels are about $1 a watt..2 of those will give you about 2KW a day in good sun. That's plenty to start with.
I was a solar tech for years until my heart retired me.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Feb 28, 2017 - 11:13am PT
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This is so cool, albatross!
I lived in Flag for 11 years. Now I'm on the Navajo rez, but I bought 20 acres not far from Indian Creek.
I lived out there for a year in a wall tent with a wood stove. I had one little 2x3 foot solar panel and a Xantrex 1500 battery/inverter combo:
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/backup-power/xpower-powerpack-1500.aspx
I was able to run a skill saw and charge my other power tools. Plus, I had light and a laptop to play music and listen to the radio at night.
I'm now toying with different construction ideas. Currently I'm thinking along the lines of some earth-berm/sea container combo. There's so many cool ideas out there it is hard to finally commit to one.
I'm also thinking of building a traditional Navajo hogan or sweat house.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Feb 28, 2017 - 12:09pm PT
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I agree, solar is the only really free route for mobil living. Although a home on the ground might have further options like water power, a gas well (more frequently possible than people think), methane generation, and other more sophisticated generation schemes, for me in a motorhome now for a few years continuously and never having connected to any facility nor paid any fees, solar is a satisfactory plan and frequently chosen by RV afficionados with our banks of batteries and giant roofs. This is called “boondocking” and it certainly works. On-board generation by propane or gasoline is the most common source of power but can be nearly replaced by solar. There are hundreds of thousands of families who have left “the ground” to join mobil America in recent years. I see this as a social reform even. How much clearer does it have to be that many of us must leave traditional communities in order to survive and be safe?
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Feb 28, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
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"boondocking", Cool . . .
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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Feb 28, 2017 - 12:33pm PT
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Used to be called camping
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 28, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
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I will try to get out to the festival, but I make at least a few trips to the GC every winter and I am long overdue for one. I could bring a panel or two out on a trip to the Marble Canyon area. You up for some canyon climbing?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Feb 28, 2017 - 01:10pm PT
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So many great comments and suggestions (except for you Vitaliy I still think you are an arrogant bully).
I thought of you as a complete dickhead...when I was standing on top of Fitz Roy.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
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I thought about the rammed earth tires but am a little concerned with the off gassing. Building something partway into the earth seems a good idea for both cooling and heating purposes (and wind protection). There is a very cool, modern hogan nearby I'll try to grab a pic in a couple days.
Jon, there is a huge soft spot in my heart for Marble Canyon it would be cool to meet up there. However I've got a fairly busy Spring including a 2 week lower half river trip coming up. I know the messaging doesn't really work here and I'm hesitant to post my email with my stalker following this thread.
Thanks for all the cool thoughts and suggestions, it sounds like some of you have some interesting homes.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 28, 2017 - 03:17pm PT
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Can I come live on your ranch? I used to live off the land. Your project is the beauty way! Use less power. Need less crap. If you have water and elevation drop, small hydro electric plant is bomb. You release water (battery) when you need power. You can pump water uphill with excess solar...... F*#k batteries. Pump water!
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 28, 2017 - 03:24pm PT
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google "Nomadic Roots Earthship" images.
Really nice place.
I feel ya on the tires/outgassing.
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