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dirtbag
climber
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"56 MILLION Moslems freed from living under the boot of tyrany and some people here are so niggardly they complain about the *cost*. "
Freed? Is the Civil War that has ensued since the overthrow of Saddam "freedom"?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Dirtbag writes:
"Freed? Is the Civil War that has ensued since the overthrow of Saddam "freedom"?"
How happy would YOU be if President Bush adopted the "Saddam Hussein Way Of Doing Things"?
Say Bush decided to be President for the next 35 years, wiped out entire cities with poison gas for the crime of questioning his "authority", tortured and murdered entire families who support his opposition, abolish all newspapers except one, and encourage his kids to be murderous thugs themselves.
Would YOU be OK with THAT?
Or would you prefer Civil War?
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2006 - 03:36pm PT
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"some people here are so niggardly"
high class pal
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Look it up, Matt.
The shoe fits, wear it.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
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i don't have to look it up to know that the word is offensive. shoes that fit are great until you decide to start kicking people with them. if you think that word is ok for public consumption, i invite you to join me in downtown oakland and let's discuss it on the sidewalk, until then, you are just showing me (and others) your true colors (colors that i have called you on before).
btw- i did look it up, and even in the dictionary they warn people against using the word...
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dirtbag
climber
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Chaz, how is replacing one bad situation with another--at the cost of several thousands U.S. lives, hundreds of billions (trillions?) of dollars, while creating even more radical nutcases--an improvement?
And oh yeah, Iraq will probably become friendly with Iran and Syria.
I don't things will turn out okay.
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Ouch!
climber
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Erudition can be a dangerous weapon in the arsenal of the ignorant. Only halfass knowledge would deem niggardly offensive since the word and it's meaning has been around much longer than the word you would substitute since you obviously cannot spell.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2006 - 04:08pm PT
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whether or not i am offended by it is not my measure of whether or not i choose to use it- go ahead and explain yourself in oakland, then we'll talk.
additionally, we did not fight the US civil war to free the slaves, but to keep the union together, and to whine about SH's behavior while in powere for 35 years is disengenuous at best, given our propping up of his regime to oppose iran, but guys lkike youare not about accurate arguments, just making arguments that support your baises, isn't that right?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Get over it boys - it was beyond clueless. By 2010 Iraq will come in a cool trillion dollars. That's one trillion dollars to further destabilize the Middle East, destroy the infrastructure and last vestige of security in Iraq, turbo-charge all of Iran's wildest dreams and initiatives, dismantle the Guard and Reserves, and unnecessarily expose our weaknesses to China. All the while bailing completely on the hard problems of real terrorism and real WMDs.
It isn't rocket science and there are no ideas for Iraq because it was a disasterous mistake to begin with and an even worse disaster in execution. It is the type of mistake that, compounded by more bad decisions and time, has no solution - got it? There is no solution to salvaging the situation that the American people will accept. We're f#cked and it's that simple; our only choice at this point is how do we want it.
It is exactly this level of blind and relentless stupidity and clinging to denial and fantasy that got us into yet another cluster f#ck. Sometimes there are unavoidable consequences for panic and stupidity and this is one of them folks.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"Niggarly" is a good word to avoid so the less erudite don't kick our asses.
"56 MILLION Moslems freed from living under the boot of tyrany and some people here are so niggardly they complain about the *cost*."
Choke... Why don't we let them vote on whether we stay or go? Free people in a democracy get to choose. Who are the next lucky victims who we can bomb into the stone age for their own good at great cost of lives and money?
"We fought a Civil War in the 1860's to free three million Black Slaves at a cost of over 500,000 killed."
We had more of a personal stake in that one. Do some research, NO historian will tell you that war was fought to free slaves.
Interestingly, I wonder if we just let the South go without a fight if slavery would have been abolished anyway?
Peace
Karl
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Ouch!
climber
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What Healyje said.
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Ouch!
climber
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"Interestingly, wonder if we just let the South go without a fight if slavery would have been abolished anyway? "
Nope. They are still trying to make it work.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Q: Are we winning the "war"?
Gates: No
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Fattrad - you, just like the Bush administration at the beginning of the war, are so blinded by what you wish would happen that you simply can't comprehend, process, or accept the realities on the ground in the Middle East or here at home in suburban America. There is no way to do what you suggest. Neither the American people nor the realities in the Middle East are going to cooperate with you.
It's never going to happen. And a big message of this war was that even a president who has complete control of the government and an emotional carte blanche mandate from the people still didn't feel comfortable raising the level of engagement about the war to the point where it would have required asking the American people to make sacrifices in order to overwhelmingly win both the war and it's aftermath. In otherwords Cheney and Rumsfeld's defense policy and strategy was entirely based on fighting conflicts with a level of engagement the American people could basically ignore because their lifestyles would not be affected.
This is wholly the wrong approach to war. If you are going to fight a war then it should not be a 'business as usual affair'!!!
It should be a get every human in the country worked up and focused, go in with beyond overwhelming force, and with the resources to rebuild the infrastructure and clean up the mess in six months to a year max. It would be good practice for when we need to rebuild a city of our own as then there would actually be folks around who know how to do it.
The word from the bi-partisan commission today will be a unanimous decision to bend over and take our medicine and get out of this mistake as gracefully as humanly possible. In otherwords it's an insalvageable mess and it didn't have to be that way. We could have not invaded or, after doing so, if we had done so competently. But we did neither, and tried to 'solve' (really 'dodge' is more like it) the problems of the Middle East without the American public noticing or having a stake in the game. Well they have one now, and it's a losing hand no matter how you rearrange the cards...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Even the Romans couldn't manage to stamp out the Christains and the Chinese haven't finished Falun Gong. What makes you think you can change the world with your violence?
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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"Even the Romans couldn't manage to stamp out the Christains and the Chinese haven't finished Falun Gong. What makes you think you can change the world with your violence?"
Brilliant neocon leadership, of course.
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turd
climber
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How come none of you foreign affairs experts are running for office?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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As far as the study group is considered, a consensus is nothing more that the lowest common denominator; that's how Bush and his team ran the war. Don't be too enthused about their solution yet.
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