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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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So Escopeta is saying that YOSAR should slash all Eriks tires and beat the sh!t out him for putting in anchor bolts.
Not sure how you got that from post. (perhaps you missed the sarcasm - eyeroll)
When did YOSAR become the exclusive enforcer of climbing ethics? That is news indeed
EDIT:
But upon further reflection..... I'm wondering when one of the supposed High-T, Rope Gun, Climbing-is-my-life, dirtbag, van dwellers on this site that take every opportunity they can to belittle anyone that dares to post on a non-climbing thread.....when are they going to step up and regulate?
You run your mouth on here about how much you climb and how little everyone else climbs but you can't muster the stones to deal with a retard like some dude randomly retro-bolting classic routes? And then posting about the fact that he did it!
"But its only the decent route......" BS
High-T indeed. I guess you'll leave it to the next guy....
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Slow day on the Flames thread?
Why not check that out for yourselfie, Anita514?
But yeah. And it could use some of your particular brand of snark to liven it up today.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oh man ! An Anita 514, retort ! Come'n girl spill it!
I know for a fact you have some stuff to spray about !
What did those 30yr old button heads on Cathedral look like?
Have the belays all been updated? How did the Prow go?
And what's the tally ? How many pitches on Cannon ?
Lab Wall? ,, The Ghost. With the roof I hope?
Very different granite, but you knew that.
It's not drunk posting time yet!
What's the score in the chase for the top of all the greats in New Hamster (-:}>
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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So Escopeta is saying that YOSAR should slash all Eriks tires and beat the sh!t out him for putting in anchor bolts.
Now that's some stoopid sh!t to say .......
We actually agree on something. You might want to reconsider your position.
Curt
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RyanD
climber
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Who uses a single 60m rope on el cap anyways?
Seems way too long and heavy.
If there is one thing I have learned over the years, it's that 2 ropes @ 50m makes way more sense.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Amelia is a cutie!
Anita is a tuff cookie!
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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There is no way I can imagine it's more convenient to make single rope raps than double rope raps on a Grade VI route. This seems to me to expressly to serve to make emergency bailing safer and easier. Where is the negative in that?
And no, this does not correlate to making an R/X CLIMB safer.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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The Sloan Nation
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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This is ElCap, a finite resource. One shouldn't just take it upon themselves to just poke holes in it whenever they see fit. A group consensus has always been the norm, and usually very conservatively.
This isn't Disney Land, treat it like the resource it is.
Burlyou Bob
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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When are they going to just pave it, already?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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By making the Nose route more and more convenient for everybody to be on it, won't then everybody be on it? And once everybody is done with it, the Nose will be trashed.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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There is no way I can imagine it's more convenient to make single rope raps than double rope raps on a Grade VI route. This seems to me to expressly to serve to make emergency bailing safer and easier. Where is the negative in that?
And no, this does not correlate to making an R/X CLIMB safer.
<SMH>
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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If you read the referenced MP thread, Sloan gives specific reasons for his handiwork.
These new stations are going to go miles toward relieving the ever present Nasal Congestion...The best part is there are now stations at 60m and 120m from the ground, so you can haul to Sickle in three hauls, instead of four...Now the Niad teams can practice their Sickle and Dolt runs with one rope, which will really speed things up, and the hauling teams will get to Sickle easier, and will have less folks clogging up their scene...'Dolt runs' are super popular now (people hoping to do Nose in a day often climb once to Dolt Tower and rappel, to suss out the lower, slippery and strenuous sections), so getting dedicated, one-rope raps from there will seriously reduce congestion on the route itself, and will lead to people have more fun, and hopefully moving more smoothly, on the Nose!
Discuss among yourselves---those of you who know what all this really means. I'm far too removed from the Yosemite scene to make an intelligent comment. Infer what you will about the fact that I'm commenting nonetheless.
Personally, I find it highly problematic when a single individual appoints themselves arbiter of safety or, in this case, traffic control, and then drills in order to realize their personal vision about what is best for the world.
My perhaps irrelevant experience with small crags in the East suggests that every even a well-intentioned bolting effort brings with it unintended consequences that diminish climbers experiences by increasing traffic both up and down the routes. (Note that I am not speaking here of the arcane so-called "ethical" discussions about the topic.) What I've seen is that every time you make something easier, you bring in people who wouldn't have been there when it was harder, and so the net effect, if you believe you are going to decrease congestion, is typically the very opposite of that goal.
When bolts are continually added to so-called trad routes, two things happen. First, the prevalence of fixed anchors continually eats away at climbers' former reluctance to carve up mountains for their own convenience. Like violence in the movies and on TV, climbers become more and more desensitized and so far more tolerant. "What the hell, its increasingly universal and this is the new reality" is a resigned (or polemical) sense of inevitability you can find in every discussion.
Second, the result is a climbing population that expects to have the same level of convenience everywhere they go, which means there is popular pressure for more of the same thing. The net effect is that the presence of ever more fixed anchors eventually creates a new population whose consensus favors...more fixed anchors!
Because the methods under debate eventually change the population, the debate can easily disappear as the potential for alternate perspectives disappears. This is one of the ways conservation fails in all areas. The drug addicts, if you will, get to run the show. And of course part of running the show is heaping scorn on those who would try to slow the march of "progress," so any efforts at conservation will always be met with irrelevant ad hominen attacks.
So uninformed, unintelligent or not, my comment is that Sloan's work is (most optimistically an unwitting) part of a trend that wants to rend the fabric of climbing as an activity that is part of the natural scene and is subject, for better or worse, to the vagaries of nature, and replace it with a Frankenstein-like monster, neither fully natural nor fully artificial, tailored ultimately to personal convenience, and offering a sanitized version of nature to a population that increasingly demands it. Is the Nose too far gone for this to matter? Perhaps, but as part of a bigger phenomenon that is accelerated by every "improvement" to the natural scene, there is still reason for climbers with all kinds of differing perspectives to be concerned.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Well put Rich. Thanks.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Rich, you just see too clearly. You mock our poor powers of perception and expression.
Bless you for your insight, as always.
Cheers!
Here is a shot of one of Mad Bolter's recent achievements, for the record.
My hat is always off to the old boy.
For how many bolts has that right hand hammered holes, is what I'm wondering.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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rgold- a sane, salient, insightful post...what the hell are you thinking?
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WBraun
climber
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All the same outrage was made when Tom Rohrer put the first rap route down the nose in the early 70's.
Meanwhile hundreds of climbers used the rappel anchors both to belay and bail over the years.
Probably saved many people's asses at times too.
They're anchors dudes, that's all, on the buisiest main climbing freeway called the NOSE.
He's putting in anchors to be able to bail from sickle with one rope in case that's all you got.
Whatever .....
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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He's putting in anchors to be able to bail from sickle with one rope in case that's all you got.
He's watering down the commitment needed to contemplate climbing the route. There is no escaping that reality.
Its not a slippery slope, its a sheer drop and the ethics of climbing is butterflying down the incline like a surfboard in your rear view mirror.
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WBraun
climber
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How many times have you done the nose?
Where's your outrage at Jardines blatant chiseling and manufacturing of holds.
None !!! you people just whine and bitch when it's popular.
Next week you'll forget everything and bitch about something else .....
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Very well said maestro Goldstone.
People like to say that climbing has changed but it is a small subset of climbers that has done so.
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