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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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It's sad that Kap sees this as a "country that oppresses black people", while I see it as a country that passed the Civil Rights act of 1964 and elected a black person as president twice, but still has a lot of work to complete due to racist individuals and institutions. But of course we have very different experiences so we are both entitled to our feelings.
It did take a lot of guts to make this stand knowing that there would be a lot of backlash. But I'm afraid he's made it about the protest instead of what he's protesting about.
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
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...they were all written before music got good.
I am now officially irate. QITNL!! Really?! OH MY GOD.
I have one word for you man, one word:
Antonio Vivaldi;
Wolfgang Mozart;
Antonin Dvorak.
OK, it's a long one word. But all are from before 1814 ;)
Hey! Don't forget my man BACH!
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Aug 30, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
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Alright...I haven't chimed in on political stuff for some time, so I'll just pose a few questions:
1.) Why is there a connection between patriotic symbols and sporting events?
2.) Why is there such religious devotion given to these patriotic symbols?
3.) In what sense has the military been "fighting for our freedoms," or "defending our rights" anywhere? I ask this in a very literal sense.
I'll tip my hand here, too: my own sense about the response to Kaepernick's staying on the bench is that speaks way more to the lack of emotional self-control on the part of a public that has embraced a simplistic (as in, elementary level) mythology of U.S. origins than it does to his being a "'Merica hater."
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
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NPR did a good story today about the veiled racism of Fransic Scott Key.
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/
From Wikipedia
Anti-abolitionist[edit]
A slave-owner himself,[20] Key used his position as U.S. Attorney to suppress abolitionists. In 1833, Key secured a grand jury indictment against Benjamin Lundy, editor of the anti-slavery publication, the Genius of Universal Emancipation, and his printer, William Greer, for libel after Lundy published an article that declared, "There is neither mercy nor justice for colored people in this district [of Columbia]". Lundy's article, Key said in the indictment, "was intended to injure, oppress, aggrieve, and vilify the good name, fame, credit & reputation of the Magistrates and constables" of Washington. Lundy left town rather than face trial; Greer was acquitted.[21]
In August 1836, Key agreed to prosecute botanist and doctor Reuben Crandall, brother of controversial Connecticut school teacher Prudence Crandall, who had recently moved to the national capital. Key secured an indictment for "seditious libel" after two marshals (who operated as slave catchers in their off hours) found Crandall had a trunk full of anti-slavery publications in his Georgetown residence, five days after the Snow Riot, caused by rumors that a mentally ill slave had attempted to kill an elderly white woman. In an April 1837 trial that attracted nationwide attention, Key charged that Crandall's actions instigated slaves to rebel. Crandall's attorneys acknowledged he opposed slavery, but denied any intent or actions to encourage rebellion. Key, in his final address to the jury said:
"Are you willing, gentlemen, to abandon your country, to permit it to be taken from you, and occupied by the abolitionist, according to whose taste it is to associate and amalgamate with the negro? Or, gentlemen, on the other hand, are there laws in this community to defend you from the immediate abolitionist, who would open upon you the floodgates of such extensive wickedness and mischief?"
A jury acquitted Crandall.[22][23]
This defeat, as well as family tragedies in 1835, diminished Key's political ambition. He resigned as district attorney in 1840. He remained a staunch proponent of African colonization and a strong critic of the antislavery movement until his death.[24]
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
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I remember being a young kid in school and I stopped reciting the pledge of allegiance for a few moments one day and just listened. All the kids reciting in unison sounded an awful lot like brainwashing to me. But then I really thought about the words and what they said and meant to me and I joined back in... with liberty and justice for all.
Yes we don't always live up to our ideals, but there are many good ideals.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
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...it's sad that Kap sees this as a "country that oppresses black people", while I see it as a country that passed the Civil Rights act of 1964 and elected a black person as president twice, but still has a lot of work to complete due to racist individuals and institutions.
Agreed, 100%.
This goes to the heart of my first post here. There is so much about our country that is good and great. And a lot of that is unique to humankind and unique in human history.
My personal favorite American "uniqueness" is The Wilderness Act (which, of course, has nothing to do with race relations). What other country in human history ever set aside land to remain wild (before 1964)? We do some things very, very well.
I have little tolerance for those who choose to emphasize the negative.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
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CK is spoiled little brat. Instead doing something honorable... something to move the conversation forward... he acts like a whiny d#@&%ebag."
It may be a ploy to keep his "job".
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Aug 30, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
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I think he took the lazy road to call attention to a serious problem. It was bound to backfire. Standing for the Anthem is like the minimum requirement for citizenship. A more effective approach would have been to lend his voice and $$ to the BLM movement.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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The Star Spangled Banner was first sung during the World Series in 1918. It was played because we were at war.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
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There is so much about our country that is good and great. And a lot of that is unique to humankind and unique in human history.
Yes, but the U.S.A. is still very racist . . . you all need to get out and see for yourselves.
I think C.K. is trying to make a statement about the rampant police brutality against non-whites . . . more power to him. There should be a separation of church and state, so to speak, when it comes to sports and nationalism . . . no anthems required, except for the Olympics.
To call this man a loser, as at least one poster has, is not very Christian. Has he no right to voice his opinion?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
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Yes, but the U.S.A. is still very racist . . . you all need to get out and see for yourselves.
I for one don't disagree (and I see it for myself more often than I'd like).
But is that problem only an American problem? Or is it a human problem?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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^I was going to talk to you about that DMT. Are those 50,000 people a corporation?
Then they should STFU.
And locker, they're certainly as patriotic as those that fly the so-called stars & bars in front of their trailers.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
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What if 50,000 people in a stadium voiced an opinion he should stand up or get out?
No problem . . . too bad they are mostly a bunch of white people that can afford the luxury of sporting events to begin with.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
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Is he a whore?
With all due respect, aren't we all whores on some level?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
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I don't think it is proper to refer to men as whores.
Aren't they putos?
Yo
Controversial, eh?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
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I stand corrected!
Puto indeed!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Aug 30, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
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There are definitely some men who are whores.
I know of at least one in my town.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
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Sorry about your bank, Tad. You'll let us know if you need a loan to get by?
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SusanA
Sport climber
Bay Area
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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I served in the Air Force and I do not think I am dishonored one bit by what he is doing. Did he say anything negative about people in the service?
It is funny that so many people try to speak for veterans. We are not all of the same mind and some will agree or disagree with just about anything.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
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BFD...Let's jump to all sorts of dumb conclusions and crap your pants with whitey on the moon...
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