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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
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Thanks for that excellent post, chainsaw. I know that for several decades, loggers were replanting after harvesting trees, so I'm not sure how this interacts with the inferior stock, but I have read elsewhere convincing studies confirming the problems caused by early 1900s logging.
In the midst of all this, the Fresno Bee published a very one-sided article about a proposal to make the entire Sierra National Forest a national monument. A thread about this already exists on Super Topo, so I won't go into a lot of detail, except to say that the article consisted almost entirely of the arguments of, and support of, the proposed monument's proponents.
I could imagine very little worse for proper forest managment than conversion of this area to monument status, particularly since the proponents have a strong animus against harvesting trees. I guess timing is everything. Meanwhile, we actually had some ash falling here in Fresno the last few days, although I'm not sure from which fire. I continue to pray for the safety of the fire crews, and look for opportunities to support them.
John
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
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Good stuff. Two things:
1. John can you share a link with the Fresno Bee article. Some of you on this thread know I have a little place up in the Sequoia Nat. Monument, so I remain curious about that issue.
2. chainsaw, I'm assuming the contention about genetically inferior trees is the result of tests confirming that? Curious how you determine the genetics of the superior trees if they were cut down 100 yrs. ago (unless you rely on a few survivors or samples from similar trees elsewhere)? Also, while I agree that bark beetles and trees have both been around forever, do we know that they have also shared the same ecosystem. Isn't one argument that that are present, or at least more prevalent, because of more recent, warmer climates?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
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I'm assuming the contention about genetically inferior trees is the result of tests confirming that?
I was wondering the same as it always seemed to me that loggers a 100 years
ago were selecting purely on the basis of size. Of course, it hardly matters
in a clear cut.
Having just spent a month in Switzerland and Alsace it was interesting to
me to see a lot of logging going on there, all of it very selective and
well done. It seemed like a lot of inferior trees were being cut as part
of a thinning plan and those were being made into firewood. That makes
that lumber very expensive but what isn't over there? Of course, they
don't think it's very intelligent to live in 3000 SF houses, either, and
few houses are wholly wood framed there - often only the roofs.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Aug 22, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
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With many houses being made of engineered wood these days, it doesn't take much of a tree to be useful so small trees should not go to waste or need to be used for firewood. California in particular already had a thriving firewood industry due to the short life span of nut trees used in farming and the hardwood nature of nut trees.
The main question is 'do we think the park service is better at land management than the forest service?'. I'm not so sure these days.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
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Your right Chainsaw! We are blaming all the tree mortality on the bark beetle, but it is bigger than that! Global warming, the drought, and the way Loggers did it are to blame. The thing that's curious to me is that they all died at the end of last summer. They ALL died ! That was what I saw in my part of the woods. People don't go up there much and are just finding out how bad it really is! And now there's fire which will pretty much even things. Does the Park Service do things better than the Forest Service...........That's a debutable question beyond me!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
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The thing that's curious to me is that they all died at the end of last summer. They ALL died !
Absolutely my observations as well, at least along the Middle Fork of the Tule River, which is where I'm familiar. Really strange. Things were dry for a few years, but the trees looked fine until maybe early this year and then, BAM!, dead trees everywhere.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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Hi FatDad. I wish I had better justification for the genetics statements. My source was conversation with professors at UCD Plant Path, who may have actual data or perhaps by observation and mathematical models presumed a loss of genetic diversity. I was also advised of this by USFS in Stanislaus National Forest where they let a fire burn near Spicer Res for nearly two years straight. Of course spicer area is unique in that moisture at the time and high elevation made for a slow burn. They had signs along hwy 4 advising motorists not to report the fire which smouldered every summer for two years. My organization worked with USFS often as we had a permit on USFS land. We cleared alot of slash. A real genomics project is called for. The sequence of pine genomes is being studied. When enough distinguishing molecular markers are developed for PCR based identification of genomes found in the field, widespread analysis of various gene and genome frequencies in the population will be determined. I have friends from way back who sequenced pine and other tree genomes. So you have a good point, FatDad. The confirmation of what I shared is still looming.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
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Cragar, nice handle! Thanks for asking. I started Aardvark Tree Service in 1991. Been climbing ropes with saws ever since. I like to brag alot I admit it. Im 48 years old and I can still run a Stihl 064 climbing high. I dont like it much though. Tree Climbing is scary. I wish I could give it up. Tried quitting but life throws alot a shyt. I guess I will have a saw strapped on for life. My favorite is putting a 24 inch bar on that Stihl and f*#keen bombin through Plunges buckin up medium/ semi big sh#t.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 22, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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hey there say, climberdude, say, thanks...
yes, i just took a fast look at it...
(it was the second 'suggested' after the neat one that the other
poster, had shared--so perhaps that is why, it is a 'next
down the ladder' as to what we really WANT... :)
kind of neat, though, if we want to keep it around for a study,
or something, but wow:
thanks so much for letting me know, or, i would have
wasted some time, trying to look around and SORT
stuff out...
thanks again! for the needed info, :)
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 22, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
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Dykens are still playing. Check out their Website. They did another tour of Big Mountain and have updates on the Status of Native Dineh resistors against forced relocation. Peobody Coal has declared bankruptcy to avoid liability for their involvement in many laws they broke and people they hurt. They transferred their assets to the new parent company Peobody Energy, which, most interestingly but not suprisingly was featured prominantly in State Department emails that were recently uncoverred. But Resistors continue to remain in the Dineh (Navaho) ancestoral lands at Anna May Camp near Shiprock Az. Their land was reallocated to Peobody Coal for Coal and Uranium mining. Some hogons, built from rocks from the mines are too "hot" (radioactive) too live in. For more info, search Leonard Benaly, Louise Benaly, Big Mountain Sundance, Big Mountain John, Roberta Blackgoat, Revive the Beauty Way.
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EP
Trad climber
Way Out There
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Aug 22, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
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In Tulare County, mandatory evacuations were in effect for the communities of Posey, Pine Flat, Pine Mountain, Sugarloaf (including Sugarloaf Mountain Park and Sugarloaf Village), California Hot Springs, Panorama Heights, the McClenny Tract, Spear Creek Mountain Homes, White River Summer Homes, Portuguese Meadow, Balance Rock, Idlewild and Poso Park.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 22, 2016 - 09:53pm PT
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i bet UCD is working on beetle resistant strains, they put tough skins on cannery tomatoes about 100 years ago and engineered the rice fields in the flood plains, so good trees shouldn't be a problem,
maybe cross them with asbestos genes, grow the saplings near New Idria so they suck up mercury molecules for low center of gravity/wind proofing,
maybe burn down the ROTC building and let the primates go while your at it, they even drilled a big hole in a cow once, and had a racist coffee shop on E street where i threw up on the grill after the jackson browne/phobe snow concert at freeborn right before the double century,
must have been may 2nd, 1975, where were you?
jus sayin, wtf, over?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 23, 2016 - 06:25am PT
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Too lazy to look it up now, but I saw a TED talk by a female entomologist who talked about how in some stands, there WERE resistant trees. So there is hope, but it's going to be a long, slow, hard-to-watch transition.
BAd
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Aug 23, 2016 - 08:01am PT
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Hey BAd, her name is Diana Six at the U of M...look her up! She has ongoing projects around the area, as a matter of fact, I see some type B.beetle stuff going on just about every time I run or MTB on our local crappy trails.
Hey Chainsaw, I ran an 064 Mag on a shot crew back in the late 80's/early 90's. Fun endless power can be found via a couple exhaust mods and a little jetting! Now I run a 193(being an arborist you probably have hella experience with this lil devil) mounted to my moto via a bitchin TrailTech mount. Need to mod it though. We had crazy wind since last fall and have cut on every ride either with the chainsaw or Silky.
Have fun in them trees!!
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Aug 23, 2016 - 08:06am PT
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Good ramble and I think correct on all fronts. The beauty of it is we are emotional beings and should be able to find ways through the emotional distress or else we will just be bummed. It is time to stop showing up with the square peg at the round hole.
yeah, you are on the edge and a little inside the chaparrel eh?!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 23, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
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It looks like the Cedar fire has earned itself the distinction of being the #1 priority fire in the US.
"We are sharing with other large fires in Southern California right now, but we are top priority," says Annaleasa Winter from the US Forest Service, "that allows us to get the type one hand crews, the heavy aircraft, the helicopters that work at night and tools and resources to get this fire contained."
Right now it's not moving north very much, good for the Needles, sucks for a lot of people though.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 23, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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Rincon - you are in Coarsegold so you see the dead trees firsthand. I've got a place uphill off upper Minarets Scenic down past the FS Workstation and we first noticed crown yellowing about 2 years ago on about a third of the pines. Late last season that third went red and dead during Late Summer and we dropped them that November.
Came back in this April and another third were yellowed and of course are now red and dead too. So 2/3rds of the pines at 5300 feet are gone! The remaining trees are showing hundreds of pitch tubes and even with supplemental watering will probably be gone by next Spring.
USFS teams spent the last two years collecting every Sugar Pine and Jeffrey cone they could find so the seed stock can be saved for replanting in the future. Talking to those crews they paint a picture where 90-95% of the pine biomass in the Central Sierra is gone inside of another 1-2 years.
We've been dropping chopping and burning when we can - but it sucks to realize that the shady pine forests of my lifetime will not be seen for another 50 years at best.
What's killing us in the area now is trying to find some Magician Sawyers who can precision drop 100 footers without crushing the sh#t out of our homes.
Ricky D
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reach
Trad climber
Brisbane, CA
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Aug 23, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
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FYI, there's a new fire called the Tule Fire that is just off of HWY 190 between Springville and Camp Nelson. Roughly 750 acres as of last update.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
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There is a new fire in the lower Tule River drainage started by lighting. There was a lot of thunder and lightning activity in that area last night!! Lots of red bolts on the Lighting Map this morning! This one is big already, somewhere around 600 acres and its pretty much a chimney all the way up to Camp Nelson! They are already calling for advisory evacuations in some areas along Hwy 190..
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