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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 16, 2006 - 09:58pm PT
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I like trip reports. Well-written ones and/or good stories are highlights of any climbing forum; they certainly were for the old (now fading) rec.climbing.
That said, I'm guilty of both the sins noted here:
(1) Often, not posting to tell someone else "nice TR," when I don't have anything particular to contribute about that route; and conversely,
(2) When I've written my own TRs, concluding from the lack of responses by other folks that it wasn't interesting, and I shouldn't bother to write TRs in the future.
Certainly the rants and trolls get much higher numbers, day after day, so on that evidence they are what a majority of posters really like to see and do here.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 16, 2006 - 11:20pm PT
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Sammy Lee wrote
"Like Mac, I don't think I've ever posted a TR on ST. Most of the climbing I do is not even a warm up lap for most of you guys. I did make a trip to the Valley and climbed with Karl Baba. I expected to do a whole TR on that one but somehow I can't get my mind around the experience. Sort of like trying to describe a dream. Unimaginable and indescribable. Not only the Valley but climbing and visiting with the Baba too. More than I can put words to. "
Get your Lazy Southern Ass in Gear Swamp Donkey! ;-)
It's pretty obvious that the threads that get a lot of responses are when folks have an issue to debate-flame-discuss about.
We just have to make a point of bumping quality threads with non-quality comments like I just did.
Peace
Karl
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Jarhead City, CA
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Nov 17, 2006 - 12:00am PT
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The TRs are some of the best stuff here. Ed, I read your Tennessee TR and enjoyed it. Used to live and climb down in that part of the country and it's nice to see pics and hear how someone sees it as a first timer from the west.
Like many, I don't post on them because I don't really have anything to add other than "check out T-Wall next time" or something similarly lame.
But for sure, TR's with pics are my second favorite thing here (fave being the historic type threads with pics...like the Mussy Nebula series).
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Nov 17, 2006 - 01:23am PT
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Ed,
Keep writing your trip reports. A lot of people read them, both regulars and lurkers. I try to write a TR about any good outing I have. Not because my climbing or writing is all that good but more because i enjoy writing them and I know people like to read them. And I send the links to my mom. Also the more TRs by all of us the more it balances out the pointless drivel on the flame fests.
Not that the flame fests bother me or anything.
I'm also experimenting with waiting to comment about TRs until after they slip off the front page. Of course then I forget and miss thanking folks. So, thanks to all for any I've missed. You know who you are. Thanks.
See ya on the rock.
Zander
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john hansen
climber
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Nov 17, 2006 - 01:58am PT
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I would just like to say Ed the T,R's are the reason I check out this place.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Nov 17, 2006 - 02:01am PT
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"On the bigwalls forum it has a views counter, and the last (only) TR I posted has 3 replies and 130 views - it is nice to know that someone's at least looking at your writing, even if they don't feel the need to comment :)"
Try being a magazine or newspaper author. I get these articles published in rags and never hear a single comment one way or the other. I'm also writing a newsletter for my company right now and the only feedback I get is the number of "unsubscribe"s I get back after it's sent. Ouch!
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Nov 17, 2006 - 02:07am PT
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Ed,
I personally have gotten a lot from your TR's. I'm inspired especially by the lesser known routes. By the same token, I haven't posted many myself since I'm climbing the common and middle grade routes. The hailstorm on Fairview was interesting, tho.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 17, 2006 - 02:18am PT
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I enjoy the trip reports. I agree with the idea that posting "good trip" or whatever does seem kinda lame. At the same time, considering the nature of this forum, even posting "good job" bumps the TR to the top.
though I don't agree with jackass he does have a point. TR's do tend to (at least on the surface) be an ego feed. It's probably why many folks don't write them up. I've started a few TR's and after hacking away felt like it was more of an ego feed than anything else and deleted the work. I think if you can work beyond the ego part of it it's easy to enjoy just knowing someone out there is doing something cool. Reading TR's when I'm not out having fun makes me really want to get the hell out of town and have an adventure (like right now damnit!).
Jody Edit: For $18.95 a month at tektonic you can run unlimited websites with unlimited email address, unlimited databases, unlimited whatever-the-fuk you wanna run on the machine, with many gigs of bandwidth. OF course you gotta know a little sumthin sumthin about running a webserver....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 17, 2006 - 02:53am PT
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Ed's TR have some particular value, especially the obscure routes he does.
Sometimes I think, "Hmm, maybe this old obscure route is really a classic gem waiting to be rediscovered." then Ed does it, takes picture and the reality becomes clear. I might visit some of those routes someday, some I'll skip, but the delusion is replaced by realism.
Maybe that spoils some of the adventure but it also spoils the time wasting.
peace
karl
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 17, 2006 - 08:05am PT
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Besides the TRs, and more generally all the old and new stories, I love the photo threads. Or photo/TR or photo/story threads. These are some of the things Supertopo does best, and the most fun to find on the front page. May they continue to thrive even though it's like salmon swimming upstream against the current of umm, whatever all that other stuff is.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 17, 2006 - 09:46am PT
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Ed et al,
Thanks for putting up this important thread. Believe me Ed, your posts are like precious gems to most of us, along with your scientific contributions. I can’t overstate this.
It is easy to talk oneself out of developing a few of one’s TR’s. I have been watching this happen to friends for 45 years now and it drives me crazy. As others point out above, it can be much work, and some research even sometimes. It might take months or years. Often one feels wordless and helpless. It usually has to start out very scribbly, dorky and directionless, maybe only paragraphic notes and thoughts. But eventually if you can keep on it, the thing takes shape, always.
The making of a TR really enriches and gives structure to the amorphous variously-pronged experience you had; in effect it is very much to one’s own benefit! And meanwhile it contributes at least to community, to general stoke, and perhaps eventually to additional friendships. So doing a bit of writing is basically mandatory in my view; it is socially constructive. You have finally joined the community surely when you make this effort. I wish to hell there had been a great deal more of it, especially by our best of the last 40 years. The internet and computers have clearly facilitated this process recently though.
Some of the TR’s here are about advanced climbs---great!---but frankly some of the sweetest and coolest here have been from Newbies reporting vivaciously on their recent conquests, usually including a wonderful flood of photos that are just too fantastic in their enthusiasm and joy. So understanding this, it certainly does not matter that one’s TR might be about a thrilled day on Monday Morning Slab as opposed to something really sophisticated, new and scary. Can one find the meaning of that day and those friendships in this simple context, a pleasant day on a 5.4 or will it slip away from you again?
The response level on ST is a measure of how much effect you might have generated in the minds of ST’ers, and what your pre-established reputation and relationship to rock climbing might be, but it does not measure how many have read your TR. Plenty of ST’ers won’t post a response after they read a report because they might feel they don’t belong here really, or aren’t hot enough to make a remark, or are too busy with their own stuff. And it is true as others point out here, that it is important to reply-post Something, when someone else has sweated and grunted out his/her TR and tendered it for our benefit. You would complement a leader after his/her lead similarly. And there are some very famous and historic climbers here who never post, but lurk, by the way, and in their old-fashioned way keep it all to themselves, neatly avoiding the occasional shitfights we seem to have, but also failing to contribute to the community that has sheltered them all these years, given them the life they have. Keeping oneself inaccessible is my view often despicable.
Some of us are more literarily inclined of course, and obviously there is a huge spread in the levels of education and profession among us. But again, most of the best, vital writing in climbing has been by people without creative writing degrees, and in many cases without a college degree. You have to write, you have to extend yourself.
So as to whether one's TR's are read or not, you just have to know they are, and even if they weren't, it is still all good.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Nov 17, 2006 - 10:16am PT
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well said, Mr. Haan.
I enjoy most any/all TR's, even if I don't say "nice TR"
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Nov 17, 2006 - 10:27am PT
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Nice TR thread, Ed!
I really enjoyed reading it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2006 - 10:59am PT
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I must say that I enjoy all of the trip reports that are posted. They are fuel for the fire, so to speak... and answer the inevitable drive in question: "what to do? what to do?" Zander's TR on Chockstone Chimney caught Gary's imagination and launched us up that route... whoa nellie!
I also look at some of the TR's like Karl, "gee, is that really what I want to do?" But I also have the advantage of climbing with Eric, who is undaunted by any rumor, gossip or slander regarding a route he has fixated on... most likely though, he will be selecting from a list where no known modern history exists. I love it when that happens! It is capturing a bit of adventure climbing.
For those of you who might tip to the side of reporting... you should! Sometimes it sounds like spew... James, for instance, edited his comments above and took out the bits about his detailed accomplishments on the Eastside boulders... I actually like to hear about that stuff too because I go to the Eastside and my mates there like to induce me to go out and boulder... the more I know I'm being sandbagged the better the experience!
And Tarbuster's threads are more like "long strange trip reports" which often careen from deep dark history to up to the moment events... and forgive me for saying it, but I like to remember how it was to be young in the '70s, and the pix from the past are awesome in revealing the stretch of time.
Authorship probably does have a bit of ego involved, but that is not bad in itself. Sometimes there is a good story there and it pushes past all the petty stuff.. and sometimes the petty stuff isn't so petty.
Climbing is about the experience. I went through long periods of my life where I just wanted the experience and nothing else. But complaining that the crowds on the "trade routes" don't know what they're missing one day, I realized that there was no one singing the praise of the "adventure experience" on the less or never done routes. So posting here is at least a way of expanding the horizon of climbers seeking a little different experience.
In my view, no climbing experience in Yosemite is complete without having to deal with ant trees...
...how else could you relate to that Sheradon Anderson cartoon, "Watch out for the ants" the leader calling down, rope snaking off the cliff to the skelleton in belay position, clothed in down jacket, woollen cap, climbing pants and boots, and smoking a cigarette.
Perhaps I should make a list of all the ant-tree routes in the Valley!
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Carolyn C
Trad climber
Gardnerville, NV
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Nov 17, 2006 - 11:59am PT
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"In my view, no climbing experience in Yosemite is complete without having to deal with ant trees...
...how else could you relate to that Sheradon Anderson cartoon, "Watch out for the ants" the leader calling down, rope snaking off the cliff to the skelleton in belay position, clothed in down jacket, woollen cap, climbing pants and boots, and smoking a cigarette."
Ed, I burst out laughing when I read that, and I love TRs for that reason. I hadn't thought about my Yosemite ant tree experience for years: belaying my partner who was normally very quick on the lead but, of course, slowed down like a cow stuck in mud while I was being eaten alive. Great thread.
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scuffy b
climber
The town that Nature forgot to hate
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Nov 17, 2006 - 05:03pm PT
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Hey Maculated,
I read a trip report that you wrote for rc.com a few years ago. It got crossposted to rec.climbing. As I recall, the reactions there were about your style, attempts to get you to contribute to the rec. and praise for some of the well-crafted phrases you used.
So I went and checked it out at rc.com, and the reaction there
was dominated by a back-and-forth with a stuffy know-it-all
about your not having a headlamp. I mean it seemed Endless..
It was a wonderful piece, and it would go over here very well.
Could you maybe..
Find it and post it here? Start firing out some new TRs for us?
I know we'd like them.
sm
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Nov 17, 2006 - 08:10pm PT
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It's my personal little tradition of the last few years to google whatever routes I did the previous weekend or climbing trip to relive my experience, see what others though of this-or-that, etc.
Whenever I'm doing this for any route in Yosemite that's not in the Supertopo, 9 times out of 10 there will be a mention of it on Clint Cummins' site. Frequently there will be a mention on Joel Ager's or Bill Wright's. Sometimes there will be a mention on rec.climbing that's not from one of the above. Beyond that, there's not much. On the one hand it's fun not knowing. On the other hand, it's fun sharing too.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 18, 2006 - 03:30pm PT
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Trip reports containing photos are hugely more entertaining than those without. Putting the photos directly into the text is very involving - you can't not keep reading. Fewer words, more photos.
However it is also incredibly time consuming to photoshop photos [those in the know are aware that the maximum size photo that should appear here on a McTopo forum post is 700 pixels wide], upload them to a server, copy the links and write the report.
The ONLY WAY the people who take the time and make the effort to do this will know that their posts are read and enjoyed, is when people reply to them. The last time I tried this was for my [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=96536"]El Cap Tribal Rite photo essay trip report.[/url] I specifically asked that people reply to the post if they liked it, and there were a couple hundred responses I think. What that told me was that my hard work was worth the effort.
A response to the post also keeps it on the front page where others can see it.
Otherwise, how would I know?
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Nov 18, 2006 - 06:14pm PT
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A great day (or days) of climbing is a great high, wheather it's 5.5 or 5.15, as someone said earlier. It's nice to share the high with friends. The mechanics of keeping it orgainzed, I don't know, but, I like em!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Nov 18, 2006 - 09:59pm PT
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If people are getting something out of their experience and can convey that, them the TR is usually worth reading.
I'm going to make an effort to reply more often to keep those trip reports up near the top of the list. Especially Ed's obscure quests, fragrant with the smell of formic acid-- don't it take you back?
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