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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 12:13pm PT
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Firstly, condolences to the young lady’s family and friends.
Secondly, I agree, deleting threads is lame. If you have written something that in hindsight perhaps you shouldn’t have or regret, there are other ways of dealing with it. When you delete a thread that other posters are referring to, it can be, confusing, for better lack of a term, to see what people are talking about.
There have been several times, especially when I first came on this forum, that I have regretted writing something (for example, castigating posters who like guns and starting a small flame war until I backed off, but I didn’t delete) but I don’t mind wearing egg on my face, as I am only human and as such, prone to mistakes.
Thirdly, I didn’t take Ron’s post to be callous or insensitive, just inquisitive. Was in appropriate on a thread like this one? I won’t judge that, if some of you want to that’s your choice.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:46pm PT
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Blinny, Sue Crawford? I knew her, if it is the same Sue that hung out in Cedar Ridge/Twaine Harte/Crystal Falls with Pam Falkenstein (née Moran), and I think went out with Dale Bard for a while.
Is that the same Sue? I think her surname was Crawford, but I could be wrong (senile dementia?).
Jaysus Werner, I don't think I have ever seen the cables as crowded as some of those pix on Google.
EDIT
No I am thinking of Sue Wilson, I think.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:49pm PT
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Now I am confused if it was Crawford or Wilson. If it is the same Sue I climbed with her several times, and she use to hang out in Cedar Ridge, at the time going out with a mate of Fiddler's, Keating's and mine - Steve Matthews - who owned the house we lived in. I gave Sue a lift down to the Bay Area several times, if I recall the south Bay (Milipitas, or somewhere like that, that is, if I recall correctly).
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Nov 23, 2006 - 03:05pm PT
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I've never seen the cables that crowded. Holy crap that is a nightmare waiting to happen.I have run into maybe 10 people on them. I'm sure NPS has a 20 person evacuation plan figured out because one lightning strike could wipe out a bunch of people.rg
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 23, 2006 - 05:40pm PT
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SANDALL -- Emily Sandall, 25, a 1999 graduate of Eldorado High School and University of Montana graduate, died in a hiking accident in Yosemite National Park, on November 8, 2006. She leaves behind loving and grieving communities in Albuquerque, Missoula, MT, Red Lodge and Dixon, MT, Minnesota, and Oaxaca, Mexico. Emily lived a life full of adventure and service. In high school she won numerous athletic awards and SAGE magazine's "Making a Difference" award. She worked with street children in Mexico and Nepal, led teens on backpacking trips for Voyager Outward Bound in Montana and on wilderness canoe trips in Minnesota and Canada for the Y Camp Menogyn. Emily loved to dance, play the guitar, sing, write, camp, and run. She was known for her laughter, her pranks, her sparkling smile, her friendship, her love of life. A minimalist in her life style, she was generous with her concern, her attention, and her bright and shining personality. Emily's family, parents, Rebecca and Paul, brother, Barry, and sister, Laura invite you to celebrate her short but exceptional life at a Memorial Service on Saturday, November 25, 2006 at 10 a.m. at the First Unitarian Church, 3701 Carlisle NE (at Comanche). To honor Emily's work with disadvantaged youth and her hopes and plans for the future, a foundation to fund projects and scholarships is being organized. In lieu of flowers, contributions can be sent to the Emily Sandall Foundation, 13000 Rover Ave., NE, Albuquerque, NM, 87112 or to your favorite charity. In grief and joyful sharing we honor Emily's life, her dreams and aspirations, and hope that in some small way we can fill in the blanks that remain with her passing.
http://obits.abqjournal.com/results?o_date=2006/11/16
More at http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2006/nov/16/remembrance-young-woman-was-humanitarian/
Remembrance: Young woman was humanitarian
By Maggie Shepard (Contact)
Thursday, November 16, 2006
In one of the photographs Emily Sandall's family shares of her in these weeks following her death, she is posed triumphantly before a glassy, glacial lake, a snowy peak in the distance fogged by the cream-clouded sky.
She's smiling, not her normal, big smile that is in all the other pictures, but a satisfied smile - or maybe a sly smile.
In her bare hand is a snowball.
It wouldn't have been a shock if she'd lobbed it at her companion or figured out another way to laugh and revel in such a glorious location.
That was her way for all 25 years of her life, enjoying nature, loving, helping and laughing with other people.
Sandall died Nov. 8 when she fell hundreds of feet off Yosemite National Park's famous Half Dome after a rainstorm created slippery footing.
Her death left family and friends digging into their souls looking for ways to honor her young, full life.
"The things she did in this short life I think are phenomenal," said Sandall's former teacher at Eldorado High School and dear friend, Joan Goessl. "She filled every corner. So many of us talk about the `I shoulds,' but she lived her life doing those things."
Just after graduating from Eldorado High School with a 4.0 grade-point average in 1999, she traveled to Nepal and Mexico, where she worked with homeless children to organize a school and raised money to support organizations opposing child labor.
There, she also forged a fair trade alliance with a group of women in Oaxaca, Mexico, and connected them with a market in Albuquerque.
Her parents, Paul and Rebecca Sandall, plan to continue this trade arrangement. The women, who called Emily "their sister," will be told of her death via e-mail, Rebecca Sandall said.
"She always looked out for the underdog, and she would kind of explain it as the people who might be forgotten," Rebecca Sandall said. "She was always beyond her years that way. But she had this playful side that kept her very pure and young."
Emily Sandall graduated from the University of Montana-Missoula in 2004 and most recently worked as an outdoor guide with children's camps in Montana.
She hoped to open an organic farm for battered women and had taken two months off work and school to help rebuild areas in Katrina-ravaged New Orleans.
Her parents, along with her siblings Barry and Laura, are creating a foundation in Emily's name to fund tuition to the outdoor children's camps Emily cherished.
"She was a light for lots of people, a pretty unique person," Paul Sandall said. "I think everybody admired her sense of adventure and sense of humanitarianism."
Sandall was also an accomplished athlete, a runner. In 1998, she was selected as The Tribune's athlete of the year in Cross Country.
At that time, she answered The Tribune's questionnaire:
"My advice is: I hope everyone out there has a reason to smile that outweighs your reasons to frown.
"What people don't know is: I hate shopping. I always feel guilty getting new things when I'd much rather have homemade things or hand-me-downs. And, I like cheese."
This sense of humility, hopefulness and playfulness were always a part of Emily, friends and family say.
"Her death is causing me to reflect on the way I live and looking at this legacy," said Goessl, "her legacy of true beauty in every moment of every day."
Edited to add text of article.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 23, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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Very sorry for her family.
The last time I did snakedike and was coming down the cables( with my climbing shoes on) a couple of youngsters( 20 year olds in tennis shoes) came running down the cables without using any hands, crazy those cables are scary.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Nov 23, 2006 - 09:47pm PT
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What a wonderful person.God speed.rg
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 24, 2006 - 08:55am PT
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Hey Kath, check your e-mail.
On topic, yeah I really never liked coming down those cables.
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mscarberry
Social climber
Albquerque,NM
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I would really like to comment about Emily Sandall. I have known Emily since the 4th grade and we grew up together. She is not only my best friend, she was a sister to me.
Emily is one of the most selfless human beings ever to have graced this earth. Her passions included helping others, dancing, writing, and nature. She had traveled to multiple countries and worked in the most awful conditions to help the disadvantaged. She tried to live a sustainable life style with minimal impact on the environment. She loved nature and was an experienced outdoorswoman who recieved extensive training at Outward Bound. Although adventerous, she was not careless. She would never put herself or anyone else in known danger. What happened to her was purely a freak accident.
I've read many of the comments about the "cost issue". To Ron's credit he apologised for his comments and I thank him for that.
It is not a matter of cost. Her friends, family and the countless people she touched could care less.
However, let us all try to think about how the words that we say might affect others before we say them. Emily's death is a pain in my soul that will never heal.
For all those who go on adventures, please be careful.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Don't mind them... I know a few climbers that drink and type on this site. Please don't let them bother you. Also please don't believe that these negative remarks represent us as a whole. Many of us are disturbed and saddened about this incident.
I have always thought going down the cables is scarier than climbing the face. I am very sad to hear that my worst fears were realized by someone so special. I am deeply sorry for your loss.
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mscarberry
Social climber
Albquerque,NM
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Anastasia,
Thank you for you kind words. Please understand I don't mean to intend that everyone uses words carelessly. But frankly when I saw the post about "costs" ,I was angry. Emily always stuck up for me,and I for her.
I try really hard not to catagorize a entire group of people based on the actions of a small percentage. If Emmy taught me anything, it was not to pass judgement too quickly on others.
Thanks,
M
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Beta Boy
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Terrible accident and tragic loss. Emily sounded like a wonderful person.
Also sounded like she was very experienced in the backcountry, so it seems like she made a choice knowing full well the potential consequences.
I've done the cables on a nice, dry day, stanchions up, and that was after having done East Buttress of El Cap two days prior. I remember thinking, I'd much rather handle the raps off of the East Buttress than deal with those cables. While 9 year old boys were sliding along the cables (on the OUTSIDE to avoid the bottlenecks) it just seemed to me too easy to slip, come off the cables, and face a long, horrible slide.
My hiking partner then, told me of the time he and his wife hiked out in the spring before the cables were put back up. Back then, they had taken a look at the wet rock and cables ... and turned around. I probably would have done the same.
To each his own decision. That's the way it should be.
I will say this, though, the few times I've gotten into major trouble climbing or hiking, it had more to do with confidence and less about ignorance.
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SeyeKo
climber
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Why don't they just have people wear mandatory harnesses that attach to the cable (down or up). At least if you slip you wont fall far?
Anyway, I'm not a climber, I'm a helicopter pilot. I feel bad for everyone. Death sucks.
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hatestocarry
climber
gunks
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I'm astonished there aren't more cable accidents. I've come down them three times after various Half Dome routes & the cable descent crowded with tourists has always been the hairiest part of the adventure, especially carrying a pig.
People won't like me saying this, but I feel the cables should be removed. Tourists assume they are safe ("the Park service wouldn't allow us up here if it wasn't safe? right?") -actual quote from a tourist
But climbers know different. Maybe just a series of rappel anchors? Too bad it takes someone getting killed to galvanize the NPS into action.
What worries me is the possibility of a lawsuit by some tourist which very well might cause the NPS to further restrict climbing in general.
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flyin spider
Sport climber
Atlanta, GA
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Regarding helicopter costs, if we are going to focus on that: There are access fees to get into the park so the park should consider having big rocks - and the accidents they will inevitibably play host to - to be a cost of being open to the public...and use access fees to help cover that - helicopters and all. Last I heard, something like 4 million people a year pay $20 per week to go there. I know I just spent $40 myself just to get in on a recent multi-week trip. That's a lot of cash that I'd rather see go somewhere besides a bloated beauracratic machine.
As climbers, too, we often talk about hikers as people who have "less business" being up there than we do, somehow....but this is not at all true.
This is a sad event, and I grieve for her family as much as I can for someone I don't know personally, but we all need to accept that accidents happen in this world. Let's not fall into the legalistic view that when such things happen that there is some fault to be ascribed to someone. The world is not safe. Never has been, never will be.
May God bless and comfort her family.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Well, there it is, the mother of all bolt chopping challenges.
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flyin spider
Sport climber
Atlanta, GA
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I am again agast and ashamed about some climbers' amazing ability to start talking about themselves and flaming each other in the midst of something this sad. Thankfully, they are in the vast minority, but to all of you flamers and gossipers....this is not AT ALL about you.
I lost the Best Man from my wedding on Mt. Whitney in 1998. I'm glad I wasn't reading the forums at that time.
 Marc
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mscarberry, condolences about Emily.
Marc, condolences about your best man.
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wombat
Trad climber
NY, NY
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My condolences to Emily's family and friends on what appears to be the loss of a generous soul far too soon for the good of this world. But at least give thanks for a life well lived which can be considered far better than a one long and mispent.
I have only climbed the cables once and they scared the crap out of me more than the Tuolomne runouts. I was frankly surprised that people were allowed on them in this day and age in America. I wont to add to the list the reckless behavior I witnessed on that one day but I am amazed there are not more accidents. I would not suggest that they be removed and access limited but I was certainly surprised.
While Ron's comment could have been better phrased, he owned up and apologized. To those who say that it is inappropriate for the topic to move to issues of access, cost and responsibility I would suggest politely that these forums are preceisely what they are for. This is a site for the discussion of climbing issues. The death of Todd Skinner sparked forthright and useful discussion of the state of his gear and perhaps may lead to a saved life - i know that I checked my harness and so did all my friends. Perhaps something similar may be achieved here. Accidents and rescues are issues that often complicate the relationship of climbers when preserving access so any incident such of this is of natural concern to the climbing community. While climbers (mostly) may be more aware of the risks they are taking and may hold a bias against certain other users, to the government, one accident or lawsuit is pretty much the same as another and climbers are not immune from either.
What I think is inappropriate is the criticism of the morals and posting "ethics" of other people. All of us have lost loved ones and their, and Emily's, memory is better served by an honest discussion of access than pointed recriminations about posts and deletes.
Peace
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