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susu
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
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This is terrible and will have to stop. What's next?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I'm not a Yosemite Climber™, but my understanding of Yosemite history is that, once upon a time, people knew how to deal with this kind of thing.
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MikeMc
Social climber
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Someone needs to sh#t on his ropes.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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well, if they keep getting replaced someone will have an endless supply of hangers.
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MikeMc
Social climber
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^^^ they probably are all stamped with ASCA too.
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c wilmot
climber
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Drive up the paved road. Buy some food at the store. Load up on water. Get a coffee, drive some more, dodge the tourists. gear up with high tech climbing equipment, Listen to a car alarm, complain that a bolt has ruined your 'wilderness' experience....
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I'm not surprised. You can tell by Erik's post that he will justify anything he wants to do and ignore everyone telling him when he steps over the line.
As mentioned don't go to the rangers, we need to police this ourselves.
All we should be doing is publicizing all known retro bolts he (or anyone else) adds so someone can remove them.
The good thing is it's easier, quicker, and costs nothing to remove bolts. So traditionalists have a natural leg up on retrobolters. And they get a free hanger out of the deal.
Please do a good job removing any retro bolts (don't just smash the hangers or break them off leaving a stud sticking out). Just post about them here if you don't want to make the effort and I'm sure someone else will remove them the correct way.
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John M
climber
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^^^ they probably are all stamped with ASCA too.
Greg Barnes has said..
from 2005
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=83680&tn=40
Just to make sure everyone knows the exact current relationship between the ASCA and Erik: Erik receives NO SUPPORT at all from the ASCA.
Erik has done a tremendous amount of rebolting work and was one of the founders of the ASCA.
However, his vision of bolt replacement on Yosemite wall routes differs so substantially from that of the community that the ASCA has completely withdrawn support for his work. Last fall, he gave Chris everything he had left and then I picked that up from Chris. No ASCA money goes to any supplies for Erik.
I hope that Erik finally listens and stops replacing every rivet with a big fat bolt, but on the other hand maybe he has already adjusted his methods - has anyone been up Ten Days After before and after his work who can let us know details? Has anyone sat down and discussed the particular replacement job he did on that route? In my opinion, it's premature to pronounce Ten Days After a "victim" without having that information.
In any case, I just wanted everyone to know that their donations are not going to support Erik's idea of bolt replacement on walls. I hope that Erik changes his methods so that the community can once again fully support his extensive rebooting efforts.
Also.. Eric has said when Greg asked for everything back.. he gave it back. I know Eric. On this I believe him. So please don't take this out on the ASCA. They are doing good work.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Another out of control selfish d#@&%ebag trying to make everyone's decisions for them and using the applause of a bunch of nOObs as confirmation. He needs to be stopped. He's shitting on the cathedral.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Señor Gabel - how do you know about this? why no pics?
and is your hangover gone yet? mine lasted 4 days. Does kev have the surveillance video yet?
seriously... where's the photographic proof? i don't doubt Eric (and there's no way in hell Erik and Eric are conspiring to troll us).
A primer on bolt removal would be helpful.
depends on the bolt as to the primer. if it's a five piece rawl it's very simple to remove all the metal with no further rock damage.
unscrew bolt. remove short sleeve and blue plastic sleeve. rethread bolt slightly. tap cone away to unbind inner long sleeve. use bolt to remove long sleeve. rethread cone with hanger on bolt. pull. funkness/hammer might be needed for outward pull. lather, rinse, repeat.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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So what were some of his other projects?
I can imagine the reaction in Camp 4 circa 1976.
There might have been serious body damage
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I talked to the climbing guides here, who also teach aid climbing, before adding the belay. The consensus here in Yosemite is that BOR is not that classic, so it is not that big of a deal that there is a midway anchor on the first pitch. Most agree that the benefit of having two practice aid pitches, easily accessible, is great.
it would be useful to have a list of all those you talked to about this... you are claiming that there is a "consensus here in Yosemite" but I have no idea what that means, and I definitely know a number of people who live and climb there who would not have agreed with adding that anchor...
I have climbed Church Bowl Tree as both aid practice and as a free climb, and while it is very slick, it is a pretty good free route... in my opinion. There seem to be a lot of aid practice possibilities elsewhere in the Valley (though perhaps not as convenient as CBT), and not on free routes. Why appropriate these free routes for aid routes.
Also, cam hooks in Lazy Bum and Bummer sounds like an incredibly bad idea...
...this is a "Valley consensus" too?
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ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
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Take this off the internet: it all looks bad
Talk face to face people
just use internet for selfies...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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HA HA HA.... Too fking funneeeee! This is precisely why I no longer climb after 44 years of doing so.
Carry on....
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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fivethirty - thanks
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yosguns
climber
San Mateo, California
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Take this off the internet
Was thinking the same thing. But because it's here...
What if we came up with some sort of treaty and divided up the land? (That's a joke.)
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Buck Wilde
Boulder climber
Oregon
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just use internet for selfies...
...and cats.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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If we don't talk about aid ladders being Nanooked today, we will be talking about popular free climbs being Nanooked tomorrow.
That was from two weeks ago, on the Ten Days After thread.
Where are all of Erik's supporters, now? The people who think his retrobolting of existing routes is no big deal? Speak up, if you now agree with what Erik is doing to the Valley's classic routes.
I think many of those younger, inexperienced climbers thought the older, experienced guys were making sh#t up about Nanook the Kook.
We weren't making it up.
The man is a pathological sociopath with no concern or respect for other people. He references imaginary supporters to rationalize his deranged vandalism. The man belongs in Patton State hospital.
I aid climbed both CBT and BOR when I was fourteen years old, with my younger brother (no instructor, no guide, nobody else), and we didn't need a Nanook-the-Nanny anchor forty feet off the ground. We had stoppers and hexes - there were no cams back then.
What sort of "guide" needs a bail anchor ten moves off the ground? Is that type of "instructor" even qualified to teach others? Aren't there laws against illegal guiding services in National Parks?
My vote is for dropping his carb into the surf. Keep the cops out of it.
OT P.S.
Hey, Erik the Wooty-Kook,
Did you ever rebolt the aid practice ladder on Bear Rock? That thing was rotten, and in need of replacement in 1983. There's your practice aid pitch, for your clients who can't climb.
Do you even know where Bear Rock is?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Erick, doesn't seem right. Free climbing trumps aid, always has. Convienience aid anchors is one thing, but not if it detracts from a good free climb. I for one have climbed those Church Bowl routes 100's of times (albeit mostly the 5.8 and 5.9 solos), but the Book of Revelations is also a good standby and not just a greasy climb to be altered.
I think you have done some good work on replacing old timebombs, but you should probably broaden your consensus abilities for things like this which significantly change the nature of a climb. At least name some more names of the local active climbers who are supporting this kind of thing.
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