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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:12am PT
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I wonder if Raoul thinks I'm fat? :)
Healyje, agreed. Seems to me that this money was donated to JB to do with as he pleased. I love how everyone on the Internet loves to freak out without all the info available. I'll take what Anastasia and JB have to say, thankyouveddy much. If anyone here's been conned, it's them, and so far from what I'm seeing, I don't think they feel that's happpened.
Turn the drama dial off, and find something better to worry about.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:15am PT
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Raoul - did you call Tim yet ? I keep asking if you did, as he posted a phone number on page 8 of that rc.com thread and you keep posting this stuff...
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:33am PT
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No Raul Alegre that's for sure...
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 23, 2006 - 08:11am PT
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mac - Was the money donated to JB? Do we know this, in the case of Tim Greene? Have I missed any published evidence that he received all of the funds that were donated?
And was it raised to do with as he pleased? As I recall, it was to help defray his expenses because he was uninsured.
That apparently was false.
If it was false, then the fund raising was done on a false pretext. I would leave it to lawyers to opine on the legality, but I will offer my opinion that it was clearly unethical, if in fact JB was insured.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 23, 2006 - 10:33am PT
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You can't start carping about how the money was used if you gave it to a person without a legal setup to track and disperse it. Basically, everyone said, "Hey, have XX bucks (or XX gear) and hopefully this helps you out." If JB and Anastasia went on a bender in Vegas with it, that's their perogative.
I find it interesting that you believe at least three parties swindled you - Tim, JB, and Anastasia - because that's what would have to happen for you to be correct in this particular witch hunt (regarding the insurance). I don't know ANY of them personally, but a lot of you do, and I have a hard time believing that this was a get-rich-quick scheme.
Look back at the 9/11 Red Cross dispersal. People gave so much money for that particular cause that they had to legally give it away to people who didn't need it but who qualified as 9/11 victims. You gave your money to the Red Cross to give to 9/11 victims. They did. And then there's this huge freak out about misappropriation.
If you are going to micromanage your donations, pick a charity that has the legal set up to prove it went to where you wanted it to go. Altruism is a bitch, eh?
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Oct 23, 2006 - 11:24am PT
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I was not in any hurry to contribute given the questionable circumstances of the accident. (No dog in this hunt...)
What the phuck is that supposed to mean?
No mention has been made of an attempt to allow donors who contributed to an "uninsured climber" to receive refund of their donation.
TradlsGood you’re coming off as a bit of a prick. Dave Talsky already graciously offered refunds to anyone that felt slighted it this very thread.
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 23, 2006 - 11:54am PT
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NS - It could be confusion on my part. Is the Dave Talsky fund-raising the same as the Tim Greene fund-raising?
I could have misread Talsky, whose post seems eminently reasonable. It offers transparency, an actual accounting, etc.
As far as "questionable circumstances", go back and read the public reports of the accident. You could also read a post that Werner left up of previous inattentive driving.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
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Huh?
I did not ever post any reference to inattentive driving.
Someone else took my original story and and made it out to be inattentive driving.
Your reference is defective .......
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:16pm PT
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Inattentive driving? So the phuck what!
Are you telling me you’ve never been distracted and accidentally crossed over the double yellow or taken it onto the shoulder?
Wow dude, being a bit critical aren’t you?
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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What's your point dude? Apples and oranges.
Before I just thought you were being a prick, now I’m sure of it.
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:35pm PT
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Holy Leap from Hell Batman! TiG you're phucked in the head!
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 23, 2006 - 12:59pm PT
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Oh yeah. I repeat what I said before. How about switching the dial to "off," TiG. If you're not even involved in this, why get indignant and suspicious when you have no stake in the issue anyway?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:05pm PT
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ToolisGood = dikhead.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
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Like father like son?
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:15pm PT
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Rockjox, NeverSurfaced,
Taking responsibility for one's actions...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=238878&msg=239381#msg239381 Excerpted from Aug 14 Elko Daily News.
Sure, we are talking about an icon here - somebody we all somehow identify with because of his sport.
At the end of the day, however, somebody ended up dead, due to failure to control an automobile. To put that in perspective, in NJ since 2003, an auto accident that results in a fatality if the driver has been awake more than 24 hours is a crime, apparently automatically.
Perhaps it is best that we discuss this rather than just sweep it under the rug. Or we could all just pretend that it never happened. We can simply refuse to learn from history.
Speed and inattention do not go together well in an auto. Denial, because one has been fortunate so far in escaping its consequences, does not serve you well. Worse, escaping harm may simply make you feel immortal.
You may now resume shooting the messenger.
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Phil Bard
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, OR
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:16pm PT
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Hi all,
I discovered this thread this morning, somewhat distressingly, and as someone who has also raised money for John and Steve I certainly hope that Tim is on the level with what he has been up to.
I just wanted to let everyone know, and with a big thanks included, that I've raised $5250.00 from the sales of 70 prints of John, many to folks who frequent this list. A couple of orders trickled in recently, but at this point it appears to be over. I'm pleased and somewhat overwhelmed by the response that this offer received. I spoke to John last week to update him on the progress and he seemed likewise surprised and humbled by all of the support.
To reassure all who contributed, and to set the record straight, a check is still waiting to go out to John. We are just working out the details on exactly how to do this so that all of the money gets to him and the proper tax accounting is acquired, which is necessary as the money was collected through my digital imaging business's merchant account. I'm in contact with the AAC on this matter, and hopefully they can help, but if they can't be the conduit I will just send the check directly to John and worry about the accounting if it becomes an issue in the future. All of the people who participated in this offer should now have received their prints. Several even sold in Europe...
Once again, thanks to all. It's great to see that the climbing community can come together like this at a time when two of its members experience such hardship.
Best,
Phil Bard
update: AAC came through, the check is in the mail...
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Oct 23, 2006 - 01:20pm PT
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You may now resume shooting the messenger
if only.....
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Oct 23, 2006 - 03:18pm PT
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i wouldn't want to shoot the guy, but i wouldn't mind if he was voted off the island.
i would even offer to stop posting on this site forever, if only dadisbad and rimlicker were to do the same.
edit-
it's just unbelievable to me, that in the context of anyone's personal tragedy of such magnitude, that someone else would reference a decades old 3rd hand story of youthful shenanigans to imply that some recklessness or negligence was necessarily a part of the tragedy. the fact that it's JB he's insulting is irrelevant to me, there is just no point in piling anything onto someone that already must bear such a burden. you really are an ass.
seriously- TIG- what everyone is trying to tell you is this:
OMG, what a total f*#king prick you are, once and for all.
and again, it's absolutely no surprise to anyone that your mal-adjusted son makes racist and insulting comments, not necessarily because he is a racist, but because he sees no harm in it.
and i know my best stories far exceed that one (in terms of the irresponsibility factor) about playing sax while driving, BFD. the guy drove off the road in the middle of a long drive, anyone who ever drives far and hasn't had close calls must be a superhero.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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I was not swindled. I did not contribute. I was not in any hurry to contribute given the questionable circumstances of the accident. (No dog in this hunt...)
Let us know!