Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
The OP hasn't really stated where he was. To be clear... I'm not anti-have fun in your ORV. There's a million miles of off road track in and around the valley that you can legally run your 4x around on without leaving a visual impact that the next guy has to look at. Just because something is technically"legal" doesn't really make it OK though in my personal opinion.
ORV people deal with the same access and impact issues that are the bane of every outdoor enthusiast (more so even), so it surprises me when they support destructive habits that sometimes cause the access issues they complain about. The BLM is generally pretty lenient, but they can and have restricted access. If this happened on Federal land it was totally illegal. When you are out in the middle of the desert, how do you know exactly where that BLM/Federal boundary is?
Give the guy a break? Well, there's this guy, then the next guy then the next 10 guys that get a break and then there's a big mess because everybody is doing it. If there's water in a desert...you can safely assume there is a delicate ecosystem involved... even if it is just some slimy microbes no one cares about... so why not give the microbes a break and drive around?
|
|
Rick Vena
climber
SF,CA
|
|
^^^I agree 100%. Having spent a lot of time in both Panamint and DV, it pains me to see the consequences of mechanized passage. Go walk up Surprise Canyon to see how lingering this impact is. That sh#t takes a loooong time to abate.
It does appear, from the photos, the driver was on a use road. His difficulty crossing it implies the road might be best closed. Digging bollards and plowing trenches in mud that will be visible for decades is proof enough.
Right now, there is a kerfuffle going on in Owens Valley regarding a proposal to expand OHV use.
|
|
TLP
climber
|
|
if he was legal give the guy a break.
In my view, it doesn't matter, no break here. We shouldn't need maps and rules and a bunch of specifications in order to use the outdoors wisely. I drive through some radical dirt road and off road places for work and fun, but I pay a lot of attention to where I'm going to eliminate the chance of making this kind of a mess.
What if somebody posts a TR, they went to Red Rocks and too bad so sad it had rained a lot but it's legal, so they climbed anyway and broke a bunch of holds off a classic climb. Oooops! But it's legal, so give him a break. Eh?
|
|
son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
|
|
Thanks Dapper Dan! Can't remember how many time I've seen headlights winking
over in the Inyo's as we were trudging down from Mt Whitney after dark.
4WD's yeah!
Noticed on my map you guys briefly stuck in the mud just south of that huge mining operation chewing away at the mtn side between Panamint and Death valleys. To bad going west from there is verboten due to the new China Lake missile fields.
|
|
KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
|
|
Actually, running across relics of epics in the desert is kind cool. Good context checkpoint. And pretty rare these parts.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
|
|
I like Dapper Dan's contributions. I hope he tried to "restore" the dugup area before he left.
|
|
CA.Timothy
climber
California
|
|
If this happened on Federal land it was totally illegal. When you are out in the middle of the desert, how do you know exactly where that BLM/Federal boundary is?
BLM land is federal land. You mean BLM and NPS land? Both still federal land. Some ORV use (with many rules) is allowed in a number of National Park Units. Canyonlands for example. Way more BLM land allows ORV use then restricts it.
What exactly are you trying to say? Did I mis-read?
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
No- I mis-typed. I meant protected National Park-land. The argument is all over once they start dissecting every word of your posts and pointing out errors. :)
The exact location actually may have no relevance. This could be anywhere in the US. It's the broader issue of our impact on the natural landscape (visual and otherwise) and the mentality that justifies it that is... curious.
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
Looks like a good time with dad in a bulletproof Toyota.
Very nice fix to the problem, a hi jack just ain't gonna cut it.
Thanks for the tr.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
so i guess we should we ban mother nature from attacking death valley?
after the first good storm those tracks will be gone,
people will use any excuse to get their bitch face on,
|
|
dave729
Trad climber
Western America
|
|
You rule! Dr Sprock. The mud is a tens of millions of years old and
a mile+ deep in the Panamint Valley.
People razzing about mud tracks there are insane and probably complain
about their signif others not moaning loud enough.
F' em!
4WD & cam'ing pro are our future.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
I'm not too worried about the mud in DV
|
|
Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
|
|
Looks like he was in the Panamint which except for the far north end of the valley is outside DVNP. The Argus Range is on the west side of the valley and even further from DVNP. I have spent a lot of time exploring that area and can fully understand how easy it can be to get into a pickle like this. There are many roads that cross playas and washes and the BLM simply asks that you stay on the road and use good judgement and not drive around or off existing roads. It looks like Dapper was just trying to follow the existing road and got stuck. Good job getting unstuck and not calling on local authorities for help.
|
|
Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
|
|
"Thanks goodness there are folks like Dave420 ready to fight to the death, if necessary, to preserve this aspect of the American Religion."
What damage has the money making aspect of the American Religion done to the area?
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
|
|
I think women are more analytical then men who seem to be more gungho at conquering things
especially outdoors in a 4x4
I happen to agree with JTM on this one
there could of been alternatives ,less damaging routes, he obviously got around it after he got unstuck
Also I never understand how people document their fukc ups and think its cool
Bragman and the bear come to mind
it is what it is but if everyone did it , it would be really fukced up
Nothing against the OP he has been through the area tried and true
the area is desolate, barren and desolate, he did self rescue, imagine if a big heavy equipment rig had to drive out and extract the truck, triple yuk
But for those of you who think he took the time to put it back more to the way it was than wasnt ,are fools
|
|
KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
|
|
after the first good storm those tracks will be gone
This.
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
How does any one of you know he wasn't on a road that had been previously washed out? How do you know he wasn't sticking to the established trail?
Go around? Seriously? How far? All the way back? In the OP he clearly stated he walked on the ground and it felt solid, so it was a surprise to bust through into the mud. Are there any of you who could have done better? It's just soooo obvious to you that his truck didn't belong there?
Come on, sac up and admit any one of us out on a dirt road could just as easily have gotten stuck in similar circumstance. No? Then you probably don't belong in the great outdoors. Being climbers, I would have thought you'd understand that things sometimes happen unexpectedly. Why else would you tie in?
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
I got stuck just like Dapper...I wasn't joy riding but trying to get to a dirt road to go for a jog near the Glass Mt...Did a pre-walk on ground that seemed firm enough to support a vehicle and sunk to the hubs..Had enough cell battery to call for a rescue...The tracks were gone within a year..
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
way homo to complain about tracks in the dirt,
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
Me and my wife got stuck in the mud 40 miles outside of Barstow about 8 years ago.
Same kind of mud, BLM land.
Everything we tried wouldn't work. I did have a 50 ft. piece of rope and wondered if it could somehow get me out. I couldn't find an anchor, nor did I have a winch.
We had to have a Tow truck come out, go 10 miles off road and pull our sorry asses out. $500
But after seeing this thread..
What a great idea.
And I thought of another idea!
If you don't have a winch, maybe you can stick your Tire Wench in your wheel hub in a way that it's wedged, wrap the end of the anchored rope around it, then spin your wheels... which pulls you out.
Use your wheels as the winch.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!