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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 22, 2015 - 01:49am PT
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i heard they were looking for the old oak flat road when this dawn wall
thing looked cool and they just sorta went for it, so ... no helmets
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Jan 22, 2015 - 04:39am PT
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Why doesn't Alex use a rope. Doesn't he know its important for safety?
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Jan 22, 2015 - 05:29am PT
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Just spend some time in an Operating Room and you will start to get an understanding of the benefits of wearing a helmet. I wear one.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jan 22, 2015 - 06:48am PT
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Would Apogee or another medical professional care to weigh in on the types of head injury that could occur in a fall, and which of those could be prevented by the climbing helmets on the market?
Semi OT. I've posted this story before, so I'll make it brief. Clmibing back in the 80s when no one wore helmets, my leader fell off a climb about 30' climbers right of the Pirate at Suicide. His feet were around 20' off the deck. His pro ripped, so I dropped the rope and caught him in my arms like a baby. The impact drove me backwards on to the talus. Ended up with a puncture wound through the back of my skull. My balance has never been the same. A helmet would have prevented the damage.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Jan 22, 2015 - 09:23am PT
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if you fall, it is quite likely the helmet will not play a role in the outcome.
Yeah, ask Wayne's partner about that one.
Or ask my buddy who took a long, upside down fall on ice wearing a helmet and even then ended up with a concussion and subdural hematoma. The crushed helmet suggested to me as I was getting him out of there that the outcome could have been worse.
For me it used to be: on ice, always. Otherwise: not.
Now: Always.
Helmets just are not bulky or heavy enough these days to use that excuse anymore.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Jan 22, 2015 - 09:35am PT
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I've seen helmets work.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Jan 22, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
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Two helmet stories from the Bluffs:
-We had just arrived at the base of Burgers & Fries. We were both standing well away from the cliff and there were no climbers above us anywhere near where we were standing. CRUNCH. A rock the size of a clenched fist nearly hit me. Some non-climber (I assume, and completely out of sight) had chosen that moment to lob it over.
-This time on top of Burgers & Fries there was one of those full head motorcycle helmets lying there with no one in sight. A gust of wind caught it & it started to roll towards the edge of the cliff below which its presumed owners & his buddies were top-roping one of the climbs. Like an idiot, I yelled and ran after the helmet in an attempt to grab it, which I did, but very nearly went over the edge as I did so.
I'm not sure what any of this means, but I always wear a helmet when I'm aid climbing, and sometimes when free climbing, especially around loose rock. I suppose a usable piece of advice is to either avoid cliffs with beginners and tourists above you entirely, or seriously consider wearing a helmet when climbing below them.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 22, 2015 - 11:25pm PT
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Older climbing helmets were designed mainly to protect from falling stuff, the Edelrid types with suspension straps and a hard shell. Many Newer helmets are designed to help in a fall and will crush on impact instead of your skull.
For the petzel meteor: Our helmets help protect users from falls or falling objects and meet the requirements of the EN 12492 standard (mountaineering helmet).
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 23, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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Guy in our neighborhood here fell 10 feet off a ladder, hit his head, and died right there...
But it's their own heads, they can do whatever they damn well please with them.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 23, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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All situations are the same.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 23, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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About the stepping on the rope: I have heard it directly from the mouth of Jim Bridwell that stepping on the rope doesn't matter.
I think it's best to avoid stepping on the rope if it's laying in dirt or sand. Other than that, it's mostly a spiritual point to not step on the rope.
When driving, seat belts and helmets are required by law because of insurance companies. Certainly, they know the statistics for safety. When you're climbing, it's really a personal preference.
Helmet Nazis are just that.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 23, 2015 - 09:43am PT
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Guy in our neighborhood here fell 10 feet off a ladder, hit his head, and died right there...
I knew a man who was waiting for his ride outside the hospital where he'd just finished an outpatient surgery. He got faint, fell and hit his head. Died.
You can drown in a tablespoon of water it is said. Upstream, Werner has the best addition to this thread.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 23, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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1) There is no doubt that helmets can increase safety in some circumstances.
2) People should do anything that can increase safety in some circumstances.
3) People often do not do what they should.
4) Government exists to ensure that people do what they should.
5) Necessary laws are grounded in the morality that underlies "should."
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6) Government must pass climbing helmet laws to make it illegal for climbers to not do what they should to increase their safety in some circumstances.
Right?
Right!
The same "logic" underlies sweeping helmet laws for MC riders, seatbelt laws for everybody, and even NY's ultimate nanny-state move to make "too large" sodas illegal!
It's a short step from the "concerns" of the OP and others to the idea that the "bad influence" of "negligence" must, simply must, be overridden by "sensible" laws to "increase public safety."
Ahh... the taco crowd is a schizophrenic bunch!
On the one hand you love talk of individual liberty and "yer gonna die." On the other hands, most of ya are the biggest fan club for the liberal nanny state of anybody I know in my life.
Safety is a chimera, regardless of what you do or don't do. And you ARE gonna die, almost certainly not in a way you expected and having nothing whatsoever to do with what you avoided or didn't avoid via "safe" practices!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 23, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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When driving, seat belts and helmets are required by law because of insurance companies. Certainly, they know the statistics for safety. When you're climbing, it's really a personal preference.
Gotta be a troll!
"Certainly they know...." Yeah, they know how to make money, and that's it! They bash you for speeding tickets, which they know have nothing to do with safety or accident-likelihood. In fact, they know that there is an inverse correlation between speeding and accidents, with slow drivers much more likely to get into accidents!
Government also knows all of this. Their own studies show the facts. But the facts are entirely ignored, as "public safety" is floated as the motivation behind speed limits and speed enforcement. In reality, governments have tumbled to the ease with which the public can be fleeced by the enforcement of one and only one traffic law.
http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/faq
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 23, 2015 - 10:15am PT
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Time for my Werner impersonation...
stupid americans, always trying to control eachother when no one is safe...
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sempervirens
climber
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Jan 23, 2015 - 10:16am PT
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It's a short step from the "concerns" of the OP and others to the idea that the "bad influence" of "negligence" must, simply must, be overridden by "sensible" laws to "increase public safety."
But in this conversation re helmets in climbing you're the only one making that step. It gives you a reason to a rant. That's called a straw man argument. Media and politics is full of such nonsense.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 23, 2015 - 10:30am PT
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But in this conversation re helmets in climbing you're the only one making that step. It gives you a reason to a rant. That's called a straw man argument. Media and politics is full of such nonsense.
No, actually it is you missing the point, which was clearly stated: "Ahh... the taco crowd is a schizophrenic bunch! On the one hand you love talk of individual liberty and "yer gonna die." On the other hands, most of ya are the biggest fan club for the liberal nanny state of anybody I know in my life."
The very fact that this particular thread even exists is proof of one side of that schizophrenia. The other side can easily be seen in any/all of the vast array of politard threads, where the left-leaning majority "win" by sheer weight of numbers (and intensity of flames).
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sempervirens
climber
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Jan 23, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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No, actually it is you missing the point, which was clearly stated: "Ahh... the taco crowd is a schizophrenic bunch!
schizophrenic taco, yah ok, I got that point, no argument.
But in this conversation nobody but you brought up a helmet law. Many of the comments are damn reasonable discussions about safety. And those comments are worth reading, yours are rhetorical and are much less worthwhile.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 23, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
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But in this conversation nobody but you brought up a helmet law. Many of the comments are damn reasonable discussions about safety. And those comments are worth reading, yours are rhetorical and are much less worthwhile.
Do you honestly believe that this has been a discussion of "safety?" Seriously? And your assessment of what's "worthwhile" is about as relevant to my act and content of posting as whether or not a fly just farted in India.
Actually, this whole thread is either not "worthwhile" or is tending toward the helmet-law mentality I mentioned. It consists entirely of comments lacking in perspicuity (are the guys setting a bad example? etc), truisms (it's personal opinion, so don't try to impose yours on the guys), or tend toward the very "moral" and monolithic perspectives that do form the basis of helmet laws, and indeed the whole nanny state (Wear a f*#king helmet).
"Safety?" Again, really, are you serious???
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 23, 2015 - 01:03pm PT
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Ahh... right on time....
Dingus....
Wait for it....
Wait for it....
Yes, and....
there it is....
"You are ridiculous."
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