People don't kill people, guns do!

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HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:23am PT
salamanizer
you took my bait. Obviously my sarcasm was above your head.
You will note my serious intent. I merely point out the idiocy of insisting that ANYONE has a right to own/fire any weapon. This should be obvious to any rational adult.
It is pure criminal negligence that someone would put a loaded Uzi into a chid's hands as if it were an arcade playtoy.

Even the army standard M16 is a 3 shot burst.
I read a very good operational rationale for that.
Yes, the Army probably spent (some might say wasted) millions of dollars on the studies.
In the end they worked out that if the first 3 shots haven't hit or taken down the target the next dozen probably won't. So the 3 shot limit is just good shooting science. Don't waste the ammo, don't let the shooter keep spraying, making himself a target. Instead take time to correct her aim. Make her THINK dagnabbit!
Blowing a dozen rounds around the vicinity of a target who can evade or shoot back is counter productive.
Besides ammo is expensive to buy, to store and especially to ship to the front.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:45am PT
I disagree.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1883519&msg=2475745#msg2475745
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Sep 4, 2014 - 10:59am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 4, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
Can somebody please explain to me how it is illegal for a 9 y/o to purchase a weapon (isn't it?)...esp. an Uzi...?

...and yet it is legal for a 9 y/o to shoot one?

And how a business can be created around this?

The Westfield, MA incident...eerily similar, except an 8 year old kid winds up killing himself when losing control of the Uzi:
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/flashback-2008-8-year-old-killed-while


Meanwhile, the usual ST GunNutz® remain pretty quiet on this one....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 5, 2014 - 02:47am PT
Ron O.
yes it is possible to teach a kid that age how to shoot a sub gun but is it the right thing to do? I have to dissagree with you and say it is not. teach them to be safe and accurate with bolt, lever and pump. It teaches shot diciplin. leave the semi auto and full auto for when they get older. heck you can teach a kid lots of things that are best left alone until the kid grows up a bit. what is the big rush?
crankster

Trad climber
Sep 5, 2014 - 06:31am PT
NRA News shamelessly promotes viewer-submitted pictures of children with firearms, some engaged in unsafe gun practices
Meanwhile, these accidental shootings by children in the U.S. happened within just one month: August 2nd - September 2nd, 2014.

A 7-year-old boy shot himself at his family’s homemade shooting range in California:
The boy was reportedly firing a single-shot, .22 bolt action youth rifle under his father’s supervision. When the boy cried out, his father noticed there was a small hole in his shirt, then blood.
A 9-year-old girl accidentally shot and killed her instructor with an Uzi in Arizona:
"(The mother) was visibly upset and shaken," the report reads. She said "the gun went off and saw (her daughter) drop the gun. (The girl) turned to her and told her the gun was too much for her and it hurt her shoulder. (The mother) said no one knew Vacca was shot until the other instructor ran over."
A 4-year-old boy in Texas was injured after he found his parents’ handgun:
The boy climbed into his parents’ bedroom closet in their home on the 600 block of Destin Drive and found their .38-caliber gun on the top shelf, Fort Worth police said. The gun was loaded and unlocked when the boy pulled the trigger.
A 13-year-old boy was shot and killed by his 14-year-old friend while they were handling a rifle in Oklahoma:
Police say initially the other teens said the victim shot himself with the gun, but after questioning them separately, police say the 14-year-old accidentally fired the gun … Police say the rifle used was stolen from a home in Midwest City in 2011. Right now investigators don’t know how the gun ended up in the teens hands.
A 9-year-old girl died after shooting herself with her father’s gun:
"The young lady was searching or looking around, found the weapon, was pulling it out of the drawer an the gun discharged as he was pulling it out of the drawer," said Police Chief Rex Brown. Brown said the bullet hit her in the head.
A 7-year-old boy in Tennessee shot and killed himself with his grandfather’s pistol:
Hills’ grandfather, Dana Buck, said he was in the living room watching TV when he heard a shot. He ran to the bedroom and found Hills, who had accidentally shot himself with a pistol.
A 3-year-old boy in Chicago, IL was critically injured after finding his father’s handgun and accidentally shooting himself in the head:
Police said the boy was in a closet with at least one other child and playing with the gun when it discharged, hitting the boy in the head and leaving him in critical condition. Police said the boy’s father took the gun, the remaining rounds and fled the scene.
In Tennessee, a 10-year-old boy shot himself in the foot while hunting:
According to TWRA, the 10-year-old was dove hunting at the Buffalo Springs Wildlife Management Area in Grainger County when he accidentally shot himself in the foot. He was taken by medical helicopter to UT Medical Center with non-life threatening injuries.
A 3-year-old boy accidentally shot himself in the face in Atlanta:
The 3-year-old was taken to a local hospital for treatment, according to police. The newspaper spoke with a neighbor, Ivey McMullen, who said she “heard people screaming that ‘the baby shot himself.’”
A 7-year-old boy in Ohio shot himself while playing in his grandparents’ backyard:
Police said the boy was in his back yard on Impala Dr. with his brother. They found a gun, and began playing with it … Colerain police said that the boys live with their grandparents, and there does not seem to be a lot of supervision. Officers will also look into how the boys were able to get a gun so easily.
A 15-year-old boy shot himself in the face after he found a hidden key to his parent’s gun safe while they were at work:
[He] found a hidden key to the gun safe and was able to get to a handgun inside. The 15-year-old told police that the gun went off as he was putting it back in the gun safe … Police said the parents told them they didn’t think their children knew where the gun safe key was hidden.
So how’s our country handling this pattern of violence resulting from children handling firearms? A child can still legally own a rifle or shotgun in 30 states.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:07am PT
I don't think there was a real attempt to "teach" much here. Some of those ranges sort of act like an amusement park. "Come shoot a machinegun"... etc...

Unfortunately certain short barreled machineguns are like chainsaws and probably shouldn't be handled by children or small adults.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:51am PT
I think most are in agreement that handing a short-barreled machinegun to a child is a stupid thing to do...
Bad Climber

climber
Sep 5, 2014 - 07:54am PT
Dingus said, "Teaching a nine year old to shoot a machine gun is the stupidest f*#king thing I ever heard."

I'm with you on this...UNLESS we really do have a Zombie apocalypse and the compound is being stormed by the brain-eating hordes. Then some VERY careful instruction and training might be justified.

Are there zombies in AZ?

BAD
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 08:12am PT
One of my friends is a cop who pulled nightshift in one of our urban hellholes. He describes the scene after 2AM on a hot summer night as looking like the Michael Jackson Thriller video.... ;)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2014 - 09:20am PT
might well have been averted with some simple, reasonable gun restrictions (i.e. age requirements for using Uzis)

Just so that I'm clear, because on the face of it that seems like such an asinine comment....

Are you REALLY advocating that there should be a LAW in place to "cover" every possible facet of human stupidity?
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Sep 5, 2014 - 09:45am PT
Guns don't kill people. Bullets don't kill people. The holes, voids, leaks and disruptions in the victim's body kills the body.

Old age kills people. You don't see anyone trying to make aging illegal.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 10:32am PT
You can't have a "law" for every stupid thing someone might do. The government cannot, and fails miserably at, enforcing common sense. Although tragic and good MSM fodder, there have not been a statistically relevant number of cases where children have shot themselves or others with short barreled machine guns at gun ranges.

Education is key for most of a society's ills, not meaningless and unenforceable new laws to add to the immense pile of other useless laws.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Unfortunately, DMT, the lowest common denominator has (once again) illustrated their utter stupidity and selfishness, thus creating a stronger imperative to create regulation to avoid such horrible tragedy.

Still genuinely interested in this question:

Can somebody please explain to me how it is illegal for a 9 y/o to purchase a weapon (isn't it?)...esp. an Uzi...?

...and yet it is legal for a 9 y/o to shoot one?

And how a business can be created around this?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
It's technically legal for a 9 year old to buy a chainsaw. It's technically legal for a 9 year old to buy a gallon of gasoline. No laws preventing them from buying matches from the same gas station either.

There are a million ways to die. Another million laws will not prevent that.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
Actually it's not legal for a 9 year old to buy gas or matches.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
I'm with you there.
Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
seems to be some confusion?

"laws" are not passed to STOP unwanted activity

they are passed in order to prosecute unwanted activity

big difference
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
There are a million ways to die. Another million laws will not prevent that.

Bingo!

I would only add the word "stupid" before "ways" in your first sentence.

You can't fix stupid, and you can't legislate it away. You can't even reduce it via legislation. And the effort to do so merely infringes on the liberties of the non-stupid.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
"laws" are not passed to STOP unwanted activity

they are passed in order to prosecute unwanted activity

Wait! Wait! Now I'm totally confused!

I thought that you were one of the ones so staunchly advocating more and more gun control laws to try to "prevent another Newtown" and so forth.
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