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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 18, 2014 - 11:45pm PT
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If you can't keep your own house in order, why would any sane person invite you to tell us how to run ours?
How, exactly, even in principle, would you suggest that that be done?
You act like "Christianity" is this monolithic hierarchy with some chain of command and disciplinary action and police and so forth.
Billions of good Christians would personally decry such abhorrent behaviors, but, apparently that's not good enough for you. So, what should Christians do to satisfy you?
Yes, there are too many "Christians" in name only. I have personally bashed on them pretty hard in all sorts of threads.
But your "reasoning" is flatly ridiculous!
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Jawon
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2014 - 12:23am PT
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Ken M: No, I was just giving you nice Christian men the opportunity to repudiate such ugly actions.
I, as a Christian man, whole-heartedly repudiate such ugly actions. I guess this thread will stay on the front page for a little longer.
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couchmaster
climber
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Aug 19, 2014 - 05:40am PT
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Holy shitski man. I have several Christian neighbors. They try and act all nice, but I had no idea that they were hanging Gay men from their barbed wire. Thank you for enlightening me Ken M. Now I suppose I have to raze their house or find a way to get even with the bastards for these injustices.
It kind of makes you wonder what the Palestinian guy 2 doors down is doing that I don't know about. They hang all gays in Iran, maybe he supports that.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 19, 2014 - 05:50am PT
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45yo, who has been following Jesus since my late 20's.
 so, you're biased to the idea that a god exists.... I guess I'll get back to reality and let the ones who know god better than me fight it out and wait for the proof....
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Aug 19, 2014 - 06:36am PT
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Everything manifest in the material world is part parcel of God.
Not even blade of grass can move without God moving it first.
Some gods are little, this one is big^^^.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 19, 2014 - 09:18am PT
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Jesus moves blades of grass twice a month on leaf blower days.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 19, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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Billions of good Christians would personally decry such abhorrent behaviors, but, apparently that's not good enough for you. So, what should Christians do to satisfy you?
They WOULD? How do you know?
They did NOT.
YOU did not.
I'm not holding all Christians everywhere to a standard. but I'm observing what the Christian men here do and say.
I see excuses why killing gays can be ignored.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 19, 2014 - 10:31am PT
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Holy shitski man. I have several Christian neighbors. They try and act all nice, but I had no idea that they were hanging Gay men from their barbed wire. Thank you for enlightening me Ken M. Now I suppose I have to raze their house or find a way to get even with the bastards for these injustices.
It kind of makes you wonder what the Palestinian guy 2 doors down is doing that I don't know about. They hang all gays in Iran, maybe he supports that.
couch, irony doesn't often transfer well, but you should see my point if you re-read your post.
I see many Christians taking that exact point of view of their (muslim/hindu, jewish/) neighbors.
I do not think, as do some Christians, that Christianity holds all truth, provides all answers for everyone, contains the only pathway to righteous living. It may for some.
I see, when Christians are in charge, a dictatorship of ideas and actions, just as I do with Jews, Muslims, and all the rest.
It is a function of being human, and particular sects do not supersede that.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 19, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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To me, it looked like you were using a horrible crime from 16 years ago... an isolated incident... one involving no Christians... to make a sweeping generalization about present day Christians. It looked like a shallow bigoted stereotype, intended to offend. My mistake.
Now, you're referring to supposedly bad behavior on this forum, going back (only) 13 years, to justify your trollery.
Seems like excuses why they can be ignored, in some minds.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 19, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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Ken,
The fact that every Christian on ST doesn't immediately change the discussion on this thread to condemn a vicious murder by a non-Christian means what to you? Where are the pastors and churches urging their followers to commit murder of gays, or anyone else they oppose? In contrast, you don't need to look very hard to find churches, pastors and congregations that oppose violence committed against gays, ethnic or racial "minorities" (in California, that's everyone, since no ethnic group consitutes a majority), abortion clinics or others.
Your reasoning escapes me on this. Are Chrisitians supposed to condemn every sin we see? Jesus told us not to judge the actions of unbelievers. Christian doctrine is clear and unambiguous: "Thou shalt not murder" was never repealed. If a Christian, allegedly acting in Christ's name, commits a murder and says that what he or she did is justified in God's sight, you bet we'll denounce it, but your example proves nothing.
John
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Aug 19, 2014 - 10:57am PT
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oh, sweet, time to spew:
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climbera5
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:00am PT
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What I find interesting within these posts is the level of vehemence that atheists object to religion, and Christianity in particular; something that they call fantasy.
I don't believe in Santa Clause or unicorns but I don't go around frothing at the mouth whenever Christmas comes around. I think there's more underneath their vile objections than intellectual meanderings.
The only intelligent post so far is the request to give man a chance to figure out a common and acceptable ethos. Fair enough, that has been attempted over the centuries from the Greeks to Rome to modern day. We've gathered some valuable insights into human nature and how to govern ourselves, but we have done a poor job of addressing our fundamental problem. Star Wars calls it the dark side, others call it sin, but it those dark traits that continually trip us up individually and collectively. Despite out best efforts to enlighten ourselves away from these temptations (greed, power, lust, addiction, etc.) a new generation comes along and repeats these mistakes. Its who we are.
Religion grew out our collective need to grapple with our dark side. Some religions have been hijacked for personal gain; which is reprehensible.
The desire for any Christian to hold a hand out and invite you to learn God's love, mercy, grace, and peace is sincere. The cynical heart will object and cite the old testament, the angry smiting God as a 'no thanks'. They are doing themselves a big disservice and they need to understand the whole story,the entire bible, which is their job, not mine. But if your heart is filled with hate and anger, with loss and regret, then it wouldn't hurt to check it out. That's all that's being offered here. Millions of people can't be all wrong.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:06am PT
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Millions of people can't be all wrong. really?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:15am PT
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Millions of people can certainly all be wrong. United States election results prove that.
The argument that religions differ, so how can any be right incorporates a related fallacy, viz. (1) Since millions can be wrong, billions can be wrong (True. Proof by induction.) "therefore" (2) All religions except atheism are false (obvious non-sequitur.)
The hostility with which the world treats Christians and Christianity should surprise no Christian, since both the Gospels and the Epistles predict it. One need look no farther than Paul's reception in Athens, described in Acts, to see that the reaction to Christianity in a college town has not changed in 2,000 years.
John
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Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:18am PT
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Where are the pastors and churches urging their followers to commit murder of gays, or anyone else they oppose?
EVERY pastor and church that teaches the Bible as the literal, unalterable, definitive word of God, urges their followers to commit murder of gays.
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads"
That's scripture bro!
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climbera5
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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High Fructose, you just proved my point of how many have hijacked religion for personal gain. This is one great example. Look deeper at the source, not the fringe elements.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:21am PT
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They did NOT.
YOU did not.
You HAVE to be trolling. Nobody is as stupid as you make yourself out to be.
End of story.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:24am PT
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That's scripture bro!
Bro, if you don't care anything about context, then, yup, you can make the Bible say anything you want.
Interpretation matters in all communication, from this very forum to the Bible. And the fact that many people can (and do) get it wrong does not indicate that there's no fact of the matter that some subset of people can get right.
Reminds me of a funny line: The biggest mistake in communication is the belief that it's happening at all.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 19, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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The hostility with which the world treats Christians and Christianity should surprise no Christian, since both the Gospels and the Epistles predict it. One need look no farther the Paul's reception in Athens, described in Acts, to see that the reaction to Christianity in a college town has not changed in 2,000 years.
And I, the non-Christian advocate, am chastised for using example that are so very very old. Even 15 years!!! (gasp!!!)
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