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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Oct 24, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
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Yeah Lila Bean!
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John M
climber
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Oct 24, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
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Can we please, please, PLEASE STOP talking about depression like it is something character-based, or something self-inflicted, or something otherwise through sufficient willpower, controllable…the stigma needs to GO
this ^^^^^
GAH! Are GENETICS a first world problem?
I have no real knowledge, but I have been hearing about things like epigenetic changes, which can cause disease. So perhaps the increase in depression in first world countries is related to some exposure to a chemical that we don't yet understand. That would make it in part a first world problem Just a thought. I haven't studied genetics.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 24, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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Ah depression, the luxury curse of western civilization.
Not to make light of a dark situation. I usually have the doldrums every day between 4 and 5pm. I call it my 'witching hour'. I try to stay off the phone with customers and avoid family members during that time. If I'm lucky I remember to eat something, otherwise I feel pretty agitated until it passes, then I'm all 'it ain't no thing' about it all most of the rest of the time. Life's too short to manufacture my own mystery if I can help it.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Oct 25, 2014 - 03:59am PT
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Depression is a human problem, it has no borders.
A smiling face is not a very reliable indicator of whether or not someone suffers from Clinical Depression.
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LEG
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 08:36am PT
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[quote]Why are we as western people depressed? We have all our needs met? What is missing?/quote]
Do we really have our needs met? Is the sociaty/culture we live amongst really the way we (animals) were meant to live?
Maybe it is our species that is out of balance with the rest of the world - leading to depression, cancer, Ebola(!), etc.
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John M
climber
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Oct 25, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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So, sure, it could be a first world problem. But it is a desease, not a "mental" problem.
which is what Lila was saying.. so I am not certain what your point is. Some people seem to think that it is just a mental problem which can be overcome with just will power, but if it were an epigenetic problem, then it would be as you say.. a disease. And thus will power alone might not be sufficient, though I do believe the mind is more powerful then we currently understand. Problems with your neurotransmitters have been linked to depression. And yet people still say things like "all you need is some will power", as though will power alone will cure every case of depression. As Lila makes clear, it gets frustrating and even painful when you are the one facing the problem and you know the lengths that you have gone to to overcome depression.
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/18494537
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:33am PT
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Depression, as well as all of the other emotions, transcend cultural boundaries. However, there is variation in how they are expressed.
In men, depression is usually manifested through anger.
Personality traits also transcend cultural boundaries.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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A smiling face is not a very reliable indicator of whether or not someone suffers from Clinical Depression.
True.
Take for example the person that is always so happy it's annoying. If you look at it on a spectrum, the middle being average/normal, if someone is on the far left, they are obviously depressed. When you go to the extreme right, where they are annoyingly too happy all of the time, the person is usually overcompensating for their depression....or perhaps they are having a manic episode and are delusional.
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Bushman
Social climber
The island of Tristan da Cunha
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Oct 25, 2014 - 10:40am PT
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Damn this if this seems cold hearted but this conversation about depression just makes me feel HAPPY.
Something's not quite right about that.
I'm a morning person.
It's the rain, the rain is making me happy.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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Oct 27, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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Maria Shriver posted this following Robin Williams' death, and it struck a chord with me...
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 27, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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LilaBiene - But, they never understand until they have the experience of being that person with the struggles...
I fear the world of the healthy will never know the true struggle of the common folks.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 27, 2014 - 07:40pm PT
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Why would you think that healthy is uncommon?
First world problem right there.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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Oct 27, 2014 - 08:06pm PT
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Jingy, this is something I struggle with on a daily basis -- I want to find a way to communicate what I know about depression, now having come out of the other side...something I don't think many who suffer ever have the opportunity to experience. It's such a massive insight -- I want to find a way to leverage this insight in a way that will help others -- those suffering, those who love people suffering and those who haven't the slightest idea what it feels like to wake up every day of your life and wonder how you'll make it through...in honor of my birth dad (and birth mom). I just haven't figured out yet how. A work in progress. ")
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 28, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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Dialogue always helps...
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 28, 2014 - 11:22am PT
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Let’s be clear about such “illnesses.” They are what the discipline says they are.
http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html
Every time someone or some group creates a label, comes up with a definition (first a concept, and then anchored by empirical markers), and then says how that phenomenon should be dealt with, not only defines an institution but also creates a set of “problems” and “solutions” (here reinforced materially and economically by the health and insurance systems).
It’s not like the DSM IV is roundly supported by clinicians or therapists. But it does say who’s going to get paid.
I understand that people do not feel well. They suffer. It would be compassionate to end their suffering, but I see many many things working. Looks a lot more like an art to me than science.
Perhaps expecting people to be the same is a meaningful basis for “the problem of mental health” to begin with.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 28, 2014 - 11:35am PT
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In other words, depression is just a perception thing, right Mike?
Well, at least Scientology agrees with you there.
Hint: It's not a 'fraid to be a li'l different' problem, moron.
Christ.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Oct 28, 2014 - 11:36am PT
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It’s not like the DSM IV is roundly supported by clinicians or therapists.
Who do you think writes it?
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 28, 2014 - 11:53am PT
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MikeL
But it does say who’s going to get paid.
 Where?
I've been to the page you pointed me to... it says nothing about "who's going to get paid"...
Also, this "illness"... the quotes.... meaning "what has been termed, though I would not" quotes, or am I seeing things incorrectly?
In other words, depression is just a perception thing, right Mike?
I think MikeL thinks depression is not a real thing... hence.. the ""'s...
This totally confused me...
I understand that people do not feel well. They suffer. It would be compassionate to end their suffering, but I see many many things working.
It would be compassionate to end their suffering.... as we would do with a household pet, putting them down humanely is what is best for everyone involved.
Please put this in context for me.... I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Oct 28, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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I would guess that he's quite personally familiar with it.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Oct 28, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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I've been to the page you pointed me to... it says nothing about "who's going to get paid"...
Perhaps he's referring to the diagnostic codes that are in the DSM and the IDC.
While many clinicians don't like dealing with insurance companies, it is the reality in which we work. I have colleagues in private practice that are cash only, which gives them immense freedom when working with individuals that need long term treatment. This is because insurance companies want us to label someone with a diagnosis, formulate a treatment plan, then dictate how many sessions the insurance company will pay for. Fact of the matter is, most people need long term treatment....6 months to several years. Insurance companies make it too cookie-cutter like, which only hurts the clients that we see. Every person is unique and what works for one person, may not necessarily work for another person.
Also, don't think that website is the DMS. That is only a scratch on the surface of what the DSM is composed of.
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