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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
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Steve, beautiful answer, thanks!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
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Chouinard catalogs:
March 1960 Dolt catalog shows Chouinard carabiners, pitons, and RURP.
Chouinard goes into the Army winter 1962 - July 1964. I wonder if somebody was still selling his pitons while he was in the Army? This is probably why there is no Chouinard catalogs previous to 1964. The January 31, 1977 New Yorker Profile story on Chouinard states that in 1964 Chouinard went back into creating climbing gear immediately and created a one page price list flyer for the climbing stores. At the bottom it was written "Don't expect a speedy delivery in the months of May, June, July, August and September." Because those were the climbing months.
Identifying the 1960s Chouinard catalogs has been quite a challenge. I know that there are a few more Chouinard catalogs that need to surface which will straighten out the year date confusion.
The 1972 catalog remained the same through the year 1974. Only the price list in the back of the catalogs changed. I believe that there are four different price lists per year, and three years of this catalog. So possibly 12 different price lists.
Inside the 1974 Winter newsletter was Hexcentric templates where a person who has Chouinard Hexcentrics can drill their own lightening holes. What is interesting is that Chouinard did not offer Hexcentrics with predrilled lightening holes until 1976, but offered the templates in 1974 to do the work yourself.
The 1975, 1976 and 1977 Chouinard catalog covers remained the same but some of the pages changed. To identify the 1975 catalog the Hexcentics in the catalog photo should have solid sides. The 1976 catalog shows the Hexcentrics with lightening holes. The 1977 catalog has 1977 Featherlight Carabiner in the "Firsts list" I believe also that the 1975, 1976, and 1977 catalogs had two different price lists each, spring and fall.
The 1978 catalog has two versions spring and fall. The spring shows wood piolets and the fall shows carbon glass piolets.
I am still looking for a better copy of 1979. Not sure if had spring and fall versions.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
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Cliff Hanger name changed to Cliffhanger in 1982
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2014 - 10:14pm PT
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Crack'n-Ups
Chouinard creates Crack'n-Ups and advertises that they will be available fall 1973. But Crack'n-Ups went through further testing before they finally became available to the public in 1975. After this testing it was decided that the #1 Crack'n-Up was too thin to hold bodyweight, so only #2 - 6 Crack'n-Ups became available to the public. My question here is: why in the Chouinard 1975 catalog is the #1 Crack'n-Up listed being available to the public? Tom and Yvon decided right away that the #1 was too thin back in 1973. In the 1976 catalog the #1 Crack'n-Up is removed, but notice the differences in weights between the catalog pages below. Big difference! The stack of Crack'n-Ups show the different thicknesses of #2 - 6 in the photo below.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 30, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
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differences in weights --> differences in Estimated Strength .
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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"The 1972 catalog remained the same through the year 1974. Only the price list in the back of the catalogs changed. I believe that there are four different price lists per year, and three years of this catalog. So possibly 12 different price lists."
This is not completely accurate.
There was a "72" catalog with Klocker boots in the body and on the price list, there was one with Haderer boots in the body, and one with Klocker
boots in the body but Haderer boots on the price list.
There may have been other tiny differences.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2014 - 11:18am PT
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Chouinard Hammers:
1966 Yosemite - flat screw, silver lettering, blunt pointy tip, very short 11" handle,
1967 Alpine - flat screw, silver lettering, sharp pointed tip no teeth, very short 11" handle,
1968 Yosemite - phillips screw, red lettering, greater curve to underside of point, 11 3/4" handle,
1968 Alpine - phillips screw, red lettering, long flat pick with 4 teeth at pick end, 11 3/4" handle,
1971 Yosemite - phillips screw, red lettering, head point hourglasses out to square tip, 11 3/4" handle,
1971 Alpine - phillips screw, red lettering, greater droop to pick, 4 teeth at pick end, 11 3/4" handle,
1972 Crag - phillips screw, red lettering, pick measures 6 1/4", no teeth, 11 3/4" handle,
1973/74 Alpine - notch, 4 teeth at tip, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1974 Alpine - notch, 5-space-4 teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1974 Alpine - notch, 5-space-4 teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
1975 Alpine - notch, 5-space-6 teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1975 Alpine - notch, 5-space-6 teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
1975 Crag - notch, no teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1977 Alpine - notch, full teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
 1979 discontinued Yosemite hammer
Starting in 1981 picks offered with the hammers were light or dark colored. It seemed like the hammers were mix and match on light or dark tools. Also hammers came with an extra allen cap bolt and allen wrench.
Rock Hammer
Big Wall - 1.0 oz
Crag Pick - 2.5 oz
Alpine Hammer
Alpine Pick - 2.5 oz
Ice Climbing Pick - 2.9 oz
1981 Rock Hammer, notch, black 12" polypropylene handle, 19.8 oz, two picks available,
1981 Alpine Hammer, notch, black 13 1/2" polypropylene handle, 20.4 oz, two picks available,
1984 Rock Hammer, notch, blue 12" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1984 Alpine Hammer, notch blue 13 1/2" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1987 Rock Hammer, black 12" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1987 Alpine Hammer, black 13 1/2" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1988 Yosemite Hammer, 11 1/2" hickory handle, carabiner hole added to head, red lettering,
1989 discontinued Alpine hammer, Chouinard turns into Black Diamond.
1991-1993 BD catalogs do not show stamp or logo on hammers in the catalogs.
1994 BD catalog clearly shows BD logo on 11 1/2" hammer handle, carabiner hole on hammer head,
2001 BD changes to new logo printed on 11 1/2" hammer handle, carabiner hole on hammer head,
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
1966 Yosemite - flat screw, silver lettering, blunt point tip, very short 11" handle,
1967 Alpine - flat screw, silver lettering, sharp pointed tip no teeth, very short 11" handle,
1968 Yosemite - phillips screw, red lettering, greater curve to underside of point, 11 3/4" handle,
1968 Alpine - phillips screw, red lettering, long flat pick with 4 teeth at pick end, 11 3/4" handle,
1971 Alpine - phillips screw, red lettering, greater droop to pick, 4 teeth at pick end, 11 3/4" handle,
(I still have not found a difference between the 1968 Alpine and 1971 Alpine hammers)(no photo)(B-SLC?)
1971 Yosemite - phillips screw, red lettering, head point hourglasses out to square tip, 11 3/4" handle,
1972 Crag - phillips screw, red lettering, pick measures 6 1/4", no teeth, 11 3/4" handle,
1973/74 Alpine - notch, 4 teeth at tip, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1974 Alpine - notch, 5-space-4 teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1974 Alpine - notch, 5-space-4 teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
1975 Alpine - notch, 5-space-6 teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1975 Alpine - notch, 5-space-6 teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
1975 Crag - notch, no teeth, short 11 1/2" handle, red lettering,
1977 Alpine - notch, full teeth, long 13" handle, blue lettering,
-1979 discontinued Yosemite hammer
1981 Rock Hammer, notch, black 12" polypropylene handle, 19.8 oz, two picks available,
1981 Alpine Hammer, notch, black 13 1/2" polypropylene handle, 20.4 oz, two picks available,
1984 Rock Hammer, notch, blue 12" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1984 Alpine Hammer, notch blue 13 1/2" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1987 Rock Hammer, black 12" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
1987 Alpine Hammer, black 13 1/2" fiberglass/plastic handle, two picks available,
Starting in 1981 picks offered with the hammers were light or dark colored. It seemed like the hammers were mix and match on light or dark. Also hammers came with an extra allen cap bolt and allen wrench.
Rock Hammer Big Wall - 1.0 oz
Crag Pick - 2.5 oz
Alpine Hammer Alpine Pick - 2.5 oz
Ice Climbing Pick - 2.9 oz
1988 Yosemite Hammer, 11 1/2" hickory handle, carabiner hole added to head, red lettering,
-1989 discontinued Alpine hammer, Chouinard turns into Black Diamond
-1991-1993 BD catalogs do not show stamp or logo on hammers in the catalogs.
1994 BD catalog clearly shows BD logo on 11 1/2" hammer handle, carabiner hole on hammer head,
2001 BD changes to new logo printed on 11 1/2" hammer handle, carabiner hole on hammer head,
Mystery Items:
1972 Crag - phillips screw, red lettering, thin pick measures 6 1/8, plated?, no teeth, handle 11 3/4"
Interalp/Camp/Chouinard Alpine hammer, possible late 1970s/early 1980s era? Black rubber grip over metal handle,
1973 Alpine hammer, looks like it is made from a shorter Crag hammer pick, prototype?, (B-SLC)
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2014 - 06:49pm PT
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I still have not figured a way to show the difference between the 1968 and 1971 Alpine Hammers. I have seen many of these Alpine hammers, but they all seem to be the same. Solid head with 4 teeth at end of pick. Does anybody have an official 1971 Alpine Hammer that they can share a photo of?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
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Hammer Holsters
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
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Chouinard Shoes:
My biggest mystery with shoes is the Asolo Diamond Chouinard shoes.
In 1976 Chouinard started selling Shoenards, (Vasque Ascender II shoes). The Shoenards are shown in the 1976, 77, 78 and 79 Chouinard catalogs. I heard through research that the Diamonds are a later 1970s model Shoenard. But the later 1970s catalogs all list these shoes as a Vasque product where the Diamonds are made by Asolo. In 1980 Chouinard announces the new Asolo Canyon shoe. The photo in the 1980 catalog is black and white, but judging by the look, the shoes shown are the grey/blue model Canyon shoes. Other hiking boots are also listed and shown in the 1980 catalog. But the 1981 and on catalogs show no shoes available at all. So in 1981 Chouinard stopped selling shoes? The Canyon shoes were only available for one year, 1980? So when did Chouinard sell Asolo Diamond shoes? Also when did the Red version of the Asolo Chouinard Canyon shoes become available?
The Shoenards (top left in photo) were donated by Randy Leavitt.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2014 - 04:18pm PT
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To add to the shoe story, the 1976, 77, 78 catalogs all show the same Shoenard Photo, but a few of the words change in the text. But in the 1979 catalog Chouinard got rid of the "Shoenard" name and renamed the title, Vasque Ascender IIs. I am just saying this because the word "Shoenard" may have been considered "the shoes Chouinard sold" so any shoe would become the Shoenard. But in this case in 1979 Chouinard made the effort to change the name to what the actual shoe was, which was still the Vasque Ascender IIs. So where do these Asolo Diamond Chouinard shoes fit in with Chouinards history? My present guess would be that Chouinard sold the Diamonds only for a few months. From January 1980 to Fall 1980, then dropped the Diamond line when the Canyon shoes became available in fall 1980. But this still leaves one mystery, when did Chouinard sell the red version of the Asolo Canyon shoes?
So the Canyon Shoes finally come in and are sold Fall Winter 1980, and they were dropped from the line January 1981? Chouinard worked/assisted the Asolo company for three years on developing the Canyon shoes to only sell them for 3-4 months and then drop the line? This does not make any sense, and there has been a lot of Canyon shoes which have been sold on ebay over the years. Maybe Chouinard had some other company selling these shoes exclusively, and that is why they are not shown in Chouinard catalogs 1981 and on? Hmmmm.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 10, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
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Go Marty!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jul 10, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
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Lots of scrambling to fill the void when the EBs went to a pre-molded sole/toe cap the reduced their function. EBs later switched back but the Fires had stepped in and that is the rest of the story. The Asolo Canyons were in this time frame.
The green Shoenards were amazing edging machines and reduced scary Gunks edging events into a cake walks. The tan versions were ok but in a different league. The fiberglass shanks on both broke sometimes.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2014 - 11:46am PT
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What is cool about the Eiger 1965 catalog is that it shows Chouinard Kbs and Bugaboos having the newer die-cut shape. I am sure Eiger was creating this catalog in the fall of 1964. So Chouinard gets out of the Army mid 1964 and cranks out die plates on the Kbs, Bugaboos, 1/2" and 5/8" Angles. Still no "USA" stamp. I can't say that Chouinard did not work on climbing gear while he was in the Army late 1962-mid1964 since Die-Forged Lost Arrows were "Firsts" 1963-64. 1/2" and 5/8" Angles were "Firsts" in 1965 and are shown in the Eiger 1965 catalog meaning, Chouinard had them completed for show late 1964.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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Chouinard Climaxe
One of my biggest Chouinard mysteries is this beautiful small ice axe, the Climaxe. The Climaxe was first introduced in 1972 and the construction was similar to the Alpine hammer but the hammer side of the head was an adz. Two metal plates hold the head in place, and a metal sliver wedge is hammered into the top end of the handle to expand the wood which tightens the handle within the head. Price was first $23.00 and within a year it went up to $27.00. In late 1973 Chouinard creates the new polished head design Climaxe which has a Chouinard and Frost signature engraved into the pick. But this new design had a flaw so Chouinard decided to drop the price to sell the flawed Climaxes off. Chouinard decided to get rid of them at $12.00 each, instead of the $18.00 retail they were to be sold for in 1974. The Climaxe was eventually discontinued by 1978.
What is interesting to me is that in the 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977 catalogs the price for a Climaxe remained at only $12.00 each. So over all of these years Chouinard never got another batch of Climaxes to sell for the higher price? By 1977 the Climaxes would have been selling for $25.00+ each but yet they are still listed for only $12.00.
This ebay set appeared a few years ago which brought my attention to this Climaxe mystery. For a hefty price I was able to obtain these gems. The ebay seller had no past information about the items. The Climaxe and mini North Wall Hammer (?) were made at the same factory, have same sling and are showcase mint. The hammer does not have the Chouinard stamp but has the mid 1970s new Mtn outline Camp stamp. I wrote Yvon about this set and he said he never created the hammer. I believe this set was created by the Factory in Italy as a prototype set to show Yvon and to encourage him to sell these items. The Climaxe in the set is an improvement of the flawed Climaxe. This set was possibly created 1976/1977 when Yvon decided to drop the Climaxe all together. Yvon told me that he got new shipments of Climaxes in, but does not understand why he would be giving them away for free, and for so many years.
The darker handle Climaxe was donated by Eric Kohl. Comparing these two Climaxes you can see that the prototype (right) is way more beefy than the "flawed" Climaxe (left). The handle is even thicker and the head is longer in length. I have seen a few more of these beefier Climaxes on Supertopo and ebay, one of which had a hole in the head between the adze and pick. Another Climaxe has a regular Chouinard hammer handle with the red ink stamp. Brian from SLC has a beautiful Climaxe with a long bamboo shaft and has a sticker on it saying "Bamboo." Yvon says all Climaxes only had hickory handles. So this bamboo Climaxe is another factory prototype, and judging by the head design it possibly falls somewhere around late 1972?
I know that Supertopo is full of amazing Ice Climbers, so I am asking for your thoughts on this mystery. Are all of these bigger Climaxes prototypes since it took years for Chouinard to sell off the first "Flawed" batch? I have heard that the Climaxe was not a good seller and back in the mid 1970s and there were not many climbing stores to stock.
Does anybody have a 1972 Climaxe that they can share photos of?
Does anybody know what year Camp changed their symbol from the diamond to the mountain outline?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
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The Climaxe was too light, so it did not penetrate the ice well.
I know of at least one person who wrapped lead around the head to
increase the weight, which improved it greatly.
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grey thunder
Trad climber
Hanover, NH
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Jul 15, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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Marty,
I'm late to answer. The Chouinard Diamond was produced if not the same season it would have been the next one. The difference was the Diamond was the edging shoe and the Canyon the smearing shoe. Both were build on the same last the difference in the midsole and outsole. otherwise very similar materials involved.
Very good work you are doing, congratulations for taking history in your hands.
Bruce Franks
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 15, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
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Bruce- Is it fair to say that the Diamond was a continuation of the Ascender/Shoenard as a light wall boot and that the Canyon was designed to be more of a refined free climbing shoe that was actually built to last.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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Bruce!
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!