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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Jan 30, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
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OTE: Thank you for posting these regulations:
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL VISITORS AND TOURISTS
All areas on the Navajo Nation are closed to non-Navajos unless you have a valid camping, hiking or backcountry permit issued by the Navajo Parks and Recreation Department or other duly delegated tribal authority. Failure to have a permit is considered Trespassing on a Federal Indian Reservation.
DO NOT desecrate Navajo lands and violate the trust of Navajo people by discarding cremated human remains on tribal property. Please respect tribal beliefs.
NO ROCK CLIMBING or BASE JUMPING on Navajo Land. Please abide by the humble religious requests of the Navajo people and do not climb the Monuments. “Navajo law will be strictly enforced on this issue,” Parks Department Manager.
http://navajonationparks.org/permits.htm
Thanks Rick D. for sharing that from the 1971 magazine about the ban on climbing. I remember Layton telling me that he was caught climbing Spider Rock (probably around '62 - help me out Crusher). The Ranger was not all that happy with the ascent.
Anyway, I came across this from my nearly 25 year old, much loved and well-thumbed through copy of "How to Rock Climb", by John Long (page 151):
"As climbing moves into the 1990s and beyond, one of the biggest problems confronting all climbers is access to the cliffs. The loss of access to climbing or bouldering areas is an issue that affects every climber, regardless of technical ability or stylistic preference. The responsibility for solving or preventing access problems likewise rests with each and every climber. Minimizing environmental impact which could affect access will help prevent problems"... (Goes on to support the newly created Access Fund).
I would be curious if the author / photographer of said article promoting climbing on the Navajo Nation went through the proper channels to achieve permits, permission, etc. If they did not, I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of Tribal Law. If they did secure access through the legal channels, more power to them.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 30, 2014 - 06:56pm PT
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I worked quite a bit with Fred White and the Codetalkers during the 2002 Winter Olympics. If climbers interested in the Rez could find a way to make it extremely profitable for the residents to allow climbing on some towers -- Spider Rock will always be off-limits, too much history and NPS involvement -- things could be legally and openly climbed next week. It wasn't all that long ago that the Eiger Sanction got filmed, right?
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Jan 30, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
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Good point BVB, the elders and their traditions are dying off. The younger folks in many instances are more inclined to follow new Western traditions (i.e. materialism, money, fame, narcissism, etc).
Throw some money at those Injuns, tell them they will be in a video, magazine, or even your blog, they will be all over it. Tell them they could be famous!
For you sensitive folks, the above sentences were an attempt at sarcasm (a form of humor).
(edited to change they to them)
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 30, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
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Good point BVB, the elders and their traditions are dying off. The younger folks in many instances are more inclined to follow new Western traditions (i.e. materialism, money, fame, narcissism, etc).
Throw some money at those Injuns, tell them they will be in a video, magazine, or even your blog, they will be all over it. Tell they they could be famous!
I don't imagine it's about being famous. My belief is it's about economic development, decent health and dental, lower infant mortality rates, and getting a handle on their staggering diabetes statistics. The young'uns simply want some of the things us Bilagáanas take for granted.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
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If you disagree or want to improve the thing, contribute and do us all proud. Lobbing bombs from the sidelines feels passive aggressive to me, especially when personal issues are driving things.
What John said.
If you think journalism has gone to sh#t, and you long for the good old days of great writing and shining honesty, then stop whining and f*#king do something.
But good luck, because those "good old days" never actually existed. If you think responsible reporting is scarce now, just go back in time.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Jan 30, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
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Fair enough, bvb. Most of the young Dineh (Navajo) I've met want to assimilate into Western culture. I am grateful to know a number of Dineh young and old who respect their elders and the ancient traditions. We "white folks" have been dissing this culture for at least 150 years, it is no wonder the young folks are confused.
I believe this discussion is about respecting the local laws of the land. As I understand it when I read their regulations, climbing or hiking or camping on the Navajo Reservation requires a permit. Much like climbing or hiking or camping in a National Park requires a permit. If a magazine is promoting breaking the local law, however nebulous these laws may be, then it seems said magazine should be held accountable? Just curious.
It was suggested earlier that the magazines are only as good as the contributions and that those of us on the sidelines are just hucking loogies (or something to that effect). I've got some great story ideas for Rock and Ice magazine, including:
"Top Ten ways to get around the Peregrine Closure at Your Local Crag".
"How to Break into Your National Parks during a Government Shutdown."
"Sneaksters guide to using a power drill in your local Wilderness Area"
"Endangered Plants on your local crag? We have the solution: Wire brush and Roundup"
Think those would sell? Could I make $50 ???
hey Hankster, some base jumper just died near the Confluence (jumping off Navajo land), just a few miles from where another died some 15 months ago or so. I'm wondering how all of these deaths (and expensive taxpayer paid rescues) will effect BASE and other activities on the Rez.
(see the Aviation thread for a link to the recent death)
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 31, 2014 - 08:23am PT
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Are you talking about the confluence with the Green and the Colorado? That is NPS land. Right in the middle of Canyonlands NP. Not legal.
This is really about respect. It sounds weird to ask permission and offer money, but money is very short on the res.
The old BASE jumping that went on then was certainly enjoyed by the Navajo. One of the few jobs is being a guide for whitey who wants to enter Canyon de Chelly.
My advice is to find out who owns the land and then pay them, even if on the sly. Leave a couple of C-notes under a rock or something.
They don't like the NPS any more than we do, that much was obvious during the years that we jumped legally in there. We used to pay our guide 150/day back in the 80's. With inflation that would be at least double. We split it 4 ways, so it wasn't a great deal.
It was the park service who shut down jumping in the Canyon...NOT the Navajo. We were always super respectful, and as I said earlier, we were invited into homes and treated like supermen or something. They loved the jumping.
I'll never forget that old woman in her recliner next to a fire while we jumped the cliff above her tiny cornfield, or having our guide show us all of the nooks and crannies as we scouted and jumped other sites than the really choice one that Hank is probably talking about.
And never bring booze onto the res. Alcoholism is rampant, and if you bring any in, you can go to jail and make everyone else look bad.
This is just a bad case of crossed wires. I see no reason why climbing and jumping couldn't go on there...out in the open.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 31, 2014 - 08:28am PT
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Back to the topic of magazines, I am great friends with Duane Raleigh, and have met Jeff Jackson enough to know him fairly well. Jeff is without a doubt one of the best people I've ever met. He is the one who really runs Rock & Ice, now, as far as the content goes.
I was sipping scotch one night with Duane, and he said that they were always desperate for climbers to submit material. You don't have to be a great writer, just tell a good story and let the editors clean it up.
No lie. They don't want to write the whole mag. They are always looking for new material from outside.
So if you have a good story, particularly one that is relevant in today's climbing world, then write it up and send it in. The best climbing writing has always been written by climbers.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 31, 2014 - 10:14am PT
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Last year I wrote a how-to article about bagging FAs in the desert.
Although they said it was well written R&I rejected it because they said their readership wasn't interested in putting up routes.
(!!!!!?????????!?!?!??)
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:05am PT
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I wonder where they got that information from. It can't be right?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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You know, I've been sitting on an article I wrote. Maybe it's time to send it in.
"Advanced Techniques for the Gym - How to flag your left leg for style and success"
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weezy
climber
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:25am PT
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This thread is a supertaco curmugeon's wet dream! White-knighting for the Navajo nation and a "the mags suck!" circlejerk jerk all rolled into one.
Well, done gentlemen!
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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I thought the article was a fair representation of the current situation. It was not irresponsible in any way.
(And if they wanted to sell more magazines, it worked, in at least one case.)
Which is better, the status quo "don't ask, don't tell" or beginning a dialog? Even if it all backfires and the ban is more strictly enforced, at least we'll know.
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Joshua Johnson
Boulder climber
Boulder
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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Don't ask, don't tell, don't spray on the internet.
Pretty simple actually.
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weezy
climber
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Jan 31, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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Quentin Tutt posts here as Q75 or something. Also, another Rez climber named Alexander Pina also posts here infrequently. They both posted in a shiprock thread a while back. Hopefully they'll post up an informed insider's view here.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jan 31, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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I have about as much respect for Indian religions, beliefs, and sacred areas as I have for the Bible. If you wanna believe in magic in the 21st century thats your business. With that said, follow the rules, respect the land managers, work with the system, or f*#k it up for future generations of climbers.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jan 31, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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you have my permission
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Alexander Pina
Social climber
Arizona
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Jan 31, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
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Hello everyone!
there is alot of controversy over climbing on the rez that is true. but there is some light at the end of the tunnel! This past year as been great for promise of future climbing on the rez. Our own leaders have (prez office) have opened their doors to us and have made time to meet and discuss this issue. WE all see it as a positive activity that will only benefit the Navajo Nation. We are working to get some of these grey legal issues clarified. That is why Navajo Nation is in partnership with Dine Coalition of Rock Climbers as well as other organization that support our endeavor. It is only through these programs (youth groups and health organizations)that make this possible. SO WE DO HAVE SUPPORT! Jason hit it on the head..and opened a topic that is worth visiting..
And Todd you said it right! "It's not a place for pussies" so stay home!!
also this is our homeland..it has bee sacred since our native people existed....we are within the four sacred mountains.
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jan 31, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
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thank you for chiming in!
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CA.Timothy
climber
California
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Jan 31, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
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back to the original question...No, R&I has no obligations to report on something so subjective as climbing ethics. Talk about both sides and then take no stance.
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