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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Jul 28, 2006 - 04:39pm PT
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I agree that telling the NPS is a bad idea. They do not need to be involved. It will only lead to more regulating. My take would be to remove what you can when you can.
I also doubt that this was Dean based on the difficulty of the climb. That being said, I am not even remotely close to forgiving him for f*#king up the access in Arches for the rest of us.
Maybe this is an opportunity for him to start atoning to the climbing community for letting his ego/wallet screw us all out of FAs and two dozen existing routes in Arches.
my .02
Brad
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 28, 2006 - 04:42pm PT
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what's the speed record on watkins anyway?
(hint hint)
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 28, 2006 - 04:54pm PT
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"I also doubt that this was Dean based on the difficulty of the climb."
If you don't think that most walls that get freed aren't getting fixed and worked on the 5.12 pitches just because the heros that tick them have climbed 'harder' elsewhere, you are very naive. Plenty of potentially worthy contenders get shut down on the walls that are "only 5.12". Besides, sometimes the goal isn't just to free the pitch, it's to do it in a certain time or a certain style. Wiring stuff that a person has already redpointed is still part of that 'process'.
I wish that folks that manage to do these climbs 'as free as can be' and get really damn close got more hooplah so that others might be more inspired to move on with their lives and take their trash with them after a few honest attempts rather than staking out lines as their own personal playground/place of employment for a year a time.
Ben...although I appreciate your sentiment about cleaning things up on the down low, if the party that saw the mess wasn't local and already had all that the could carry when they encountered the mess, they wouldn't really be in a position to clean it up...Better that someone else be alerted to do the job, and better that the rangers read about climbers cleaning up after each other than that they find a mess for themselves when they go to do the route.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 05:13pm PT
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I'll help. And I'll document the whole damn mess, pointing fingers where ever necessary. How long do they have to clean up their own mess?
Are the fixed ropes good/safe enough to jug or rappel? Do they go to the top? Could this be done top-down? (=less work?)
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BrentA
Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
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Jul 28, 2006 - 06:39pm PT
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Jerry, Ed,
I'm for real. My only caveat would be that I would want to climb the route. From the bottom(lol). I would prefer that hauling all this crap to the top is NOT included in the project (email alpinestylist) but if it looks like chucking the stuff off as we go is a bad option leading to more litter then so be it.(at hotmail.com).
I am in the airport as I write. Would be availible to stage beginning Monday in the Valley, and would prefer to be as quick as possible in terms of days.
Cheers, and get ahold of me.
Brent
PS- it seems to me that they have had long enuff to clean up their mess, if all the facts presented are true. The fact that they have been outed in semi-public should not buy them more time. They know who they are (I don't at this point) and they have to live with how they live their lives on Planet Earth. I know SCORES of "sponsored" athletes in tons of activities. They shouldn't get cut any sort of pass, if anything they should lead from the front. Just my thoughts.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 28, 2006 - 07:03pm PT
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well ok i am outta here for the weekend and my plans are in the meadows, so i'll offer this up-
if anyone wants to plan around going in there mid week or later to climb/clean, i could be there as early as thursday pm, to hike in on friday and retrieve whatever gets airmailed to (or toward) the base.
whomever wants to join? see you then.
whomever wants to climb/clean/airmail w/ brent (or?), best of luck, please keep me posted here or via email as to the schedule you decide on, and if it's possible to give any direction to locate the piles of corporate mess, i'm sure that would be of help.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 07:21pm PT
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Caleb Padgett, or "Sincerely, Kerlib Kubbler?" Which is it, and why did you take three weeks to post this if its for real? Who were your two partners?
Not to doubt your here, but we're talkin' some serioushit here and a lot of work. Let's see some photos of your trip if this isn't a troll. Why the bogus name? Your home phone and address are easily available from google. (G St.) Needing some assurance before I roll up my sleeves.
---
I was about to post this, but changed directions:
Ample time has passed. I have Tuesday and Wednesday free. I'm not concerned with style when it comes to cleaning this up. Having put up and taken down thousands of feet of my own rope in the past, I have no interest in pulling it all up either. Way too much work, too hot, too slow. Dropping it will get messy. The traverses and ledges complicate things. Not a clean drop. Hard to retrieve stuff. Needs to be done though.
These guys really need to do it themselves. I'd rather spend the energy holding their feet to the fire. We need facts and names. Who knows these guys?
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 10:44pm PT
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Crackfiend? Mr. Padgett? Kerlib? Hello?
I sincerely hope you are not trolling. Please respond, and accept my apologies if I'm off base. Your accusations are significant, potentially having severe repercussions. If indeed true, action is needed. If false, your karma is deeply in negative numbers. Prove me wrong.
-Jerry
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Jul 28, 2006 - 11:06pm PT
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I was there a year ago to rap down and take photo's of a couple of friends who where climbing the route in a half of a day, and the ropes were fixed then. As Werner said "the person responsible for the mess should clean it up." And he probably will.
Chez
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 28, 2006 - 11:14pm PT
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Telling the offended party to 'just clean it up' seems pretty rediculous considering that we all, as climbers, make great attempts to respect each other's stashes and projects. Crackfiend and his nauseous partner didn't want to touch the gear because they had respect for other climber's property. Crackfiend and his puky compadre should be commended for their restraint and discretion. Many climbers, myself included, would have been tempted to start snagging gear on the way up once it became clear that they hadn't been there in a long time and the stuff was just litter.
It is one thing to rig up a route to free it and another to completely disfigure it. It is one thing to set yourself up to project a big route and another to essentially abandon your gear on such a large scale. We can all forgive a couple fixed pitches but for such a large amount of stuff to be fixed you had better be sleeping at the base getting ready to clean it up the day after.
I'm of the opinion that someone who does such a thing should be publicly scolded. The NPS doesn't need to be involved, but a public shaming is certainly in order. Once the NPS gets involved it is a loss for all of us. If the offending party doesn't hightail back up there clean up their mess then a cleanup crew is definitely in order, with booty split between the laborers.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 28, 2006 - 11:16pm PT
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Okay. Thanks Chaz.
CrackFiend, please accept my apology, and I'm sorry your climb wasn't ideal because of these guys. Thanks for posting the information here. I hope it prompts the perpetrators to clean up their disaster ASAP. If not I'll chip in to help.
-Jerry
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Dirk
climber
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Jul 28, 2006 - 11:36pm PT
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I did the South Face with Dan Op last August 2005. It was fixed from base to summit. The stuff sack stashes were in place at the time while the many fixed cams were not (dammit!). If I could do it again I would cut every one of those ropes. That same season in the spring the WFLT was fixed, (also big wall pitches in Hetch Hetchy 2004!!!) and I am getting fed up. We are not better climbers, we climb harder because of modern technology. Myself included. Fast and light? Is climbing still a "progressive" sport? Talk is cheap and this is crap.
We asked around after our Watkins ascent and the Lodge crew, I don't remember a name to quote but the Cedar/Scotty/Zack/Bernie/Wah table crew credited Potter for those ropes. I am not quoting any one of those individuals, I don't remember, so flame away. But there was a definite feeling they were Dean's ropes. I don't hate Dean, I want to respect him, but this is total bullsh#t.
I am stuck in Leadville, CO for another month. Somebody please go cut those ropes and booty those cams ASAP. Or I will do it come fall. Others are right, let's solve this ourselves before NPS does. To do anything else is disrespect a grand tradition greater than any one of us individually
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Dirk
climber
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Jul 28, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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I am so ticked about this I had to post twice. If you want to fix, don't do it on walls in the world's most popular climbing destination. I couldn't climb the NA Wall this June because some f*#kers had fixed lines to the ground as they continued to lead about halfway up the wall. Guess I could have led through their spaghetti but it wouldn't have been climbing.
How can we self-police more effectively???
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 29, 2006 - 12:05am PT
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Public shame is the only thing that works as cultural pressure is very real and very effective. Companies sponsor climbers beacuse of how it looks and when their climbers aren't making them look good.....
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Paradise
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Jul 29, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
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It is amazing to me that anyone would even think it is ok to leave a route in this condition just for the purpose of freeing (probably only a few sections) the route. This route isn't that hard, (I was thinking of doing it in a push) wasn't it done as a linkup w/reg route and nose in a day (maybe not but I think it was). It's a shame that a climber that has the ability to free this route would have to do it in such bad style. I realize that these tactics are commonly deployed on free walls and that this is nothing new, but is it really good style leaving a route fixed top to bottom for this long? Pottentially ruining the route for anyone who wants to climb it just for the sake of their project, that is weak. I agree that the person who did this should be the one to go clean it up, but when will this happen? I, like a few others who have posted would be willing to put forth the effort to get it done. It sounds like a pretty large undertaking especially in the heat right now (thats probably why Mr./Mrs. free wall superstar hasn't come back to do it themselves) but maybe it would make a statement to whoever that this is not cool and that the climbing community doesn't approve of these incredibly selfish tactics. It may also make a statement to NPS that climbers are willing to take care of these issues without getting them involved.
Steve Gomez
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Jul 29, 2006 - 02:00pm PT
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What a motherf*#king bullshit way to climb routes. A 5.10 crack full of cams? I'd have stripped them and kept them, left a big note on top, saying... Have some motherf*#king respect for others as#@&%e!
I don't believe freeing a route gives you one bit of justification for ruining others experiances. I don't care who you are or what you've done. Even if you only climb 4th class, you still have just as much right to anything as I do or anyone.
Why is it that many of us look up to the "greats", yet when you start to become more aware of what is going on, you realize how stupid many of them our. I'll maintain a view that climbing is "stupid" in itself as it doesn't really better anyone but yourself.
I don't look up to those that climb better than me these days like I used to. I look up to those who are out there having fun. This could mean your limit is 5.4 but if you are super stoked, you are my hero.
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john hansen
climber
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Jul 29, 2006 - 02:06pm PT
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You mentioned the trifecta of the nose ,half dome,and watkins in a day. Would this be easier with a fixed rope up Watkins. From what I've heard "any thing goes" on these speed acents... French free or maybe they just jugged the ropes. I think it was Potter and Timmy Oniell. Pure speculation
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BrentA
Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
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Jul 29, 2006 - 02:15pm PT
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SO whats the word? Go, wait, spray some more?
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Voltzwgn
Trad climber
Sac CA
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Jul 29, 2006 - 02:54pm PT
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I too would be willing to help. I'm not sure how much help I'd be up on the wall but I can at least help pack sh!t out. My work schedule is fairly flexible so if I can work it out count me in as a sherpa at least.
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BrentA
Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
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Jul 29, 2006 - 03:04pm PT
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I wonder if the fixed ropes have any mythical "raven" dung on them. How natural, how free, how in tune.
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