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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 12:10am PT
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On a different, but related note, I kinda figured the "Iowa allowing blind people to CCW in 30 other states" thing would get a bit more of a reaction given it should piss off both the anti-gun crowd and the States Rights crowd. No need to explain the anti-gun part, but the fact that Iowa is defacto dictating CCW law to 30 other states really should have gotten a bigger reaction from the folks who are anti-gay-marriage and anti-marijuanna. After all, what's the difference? In all three cases one state decided something's kosher, so why the special case for blind CCW permit holders from Iowa and not Medical MJ cardholders from CO or gay couples married in MA?
Oh, that's right... The 2nd Amendment. Which has nothing to do with any of this, as the whole thing only came up because someone noticed preventing blind people from CCW ran afoul of the ADA.
Quite the slippery slope the Cons stepped on here, and frankly I don't see a way out short of plugging their ears and chanting LALALALALAAAAAA!!!!
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Sep 10, 2013 - 12:50am PT
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this is a seriously down the rabbit hole thread. in part because adatesman is usually the gold standard for rigour and solid climbing related info and in part because the conclusions and thread title are so unrelated to the info that it purports to be based on.
from the seventh and eighth sentences of the originally linked article:
"That's for good reason, Jane Hudson, the executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, told the newspaper. She said blocking visually impaired people from getting weapons permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act."
for good or for bad, if one is going to use the cnn article as a primary source, it appears the focus/scorn/derision should be on those who believe in complete equality for the disabled.
oh what a tangled web we weave...
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 01:09am PT
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Actually wanted to use a link to the Des Moines Register, but it was behind a pay wall and linking to an article no one could read made no sense. After that Google turned up a bunch from HuffPo (which I hate), and then CNN, which happened to be the first mostly non-partisan one I found.
Didn't mean to weave a tangled web, but frankly given how the Media is in bed with the lot of them it's hard not to. Long story short, local sherrif has found himself a way to further the pro-gun agenda. And it's going to bite them in the ass.
But you want more sources? Sure thing:
https://news.google.com/news/i/story?ncl=dd80Wlhvt5yWdEMYF3uZ0WaVeWexM&q=iowa+blind+ccw&lr=English&hl=en
Probably lots more if you tweak the search words.
As for the scorn thing, I wholeheartedly disagree. The scorn should be pointed at those trying to play some Machiavellian game whereby they play the ADA against public safety by way of the 2nd. That's some f*#ked up sh#t, and it's coming from Iowa.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Sep 10, 2013 - 02:35am PT
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no worries adatesman. i'm mostly just passin' some time bustin' a few balls and am not really that interested in the intricacies of this steaming pile of a debate [specifically or generally].
trying to make sense of the gun debates in the u.s. is like staring at vomit trying to figure out what another persons last few meals were.
there is a layer of future absurdity, on top of a layer of current absurdity, on top of a layer of historical absurdity, and it is coming from all directions...
ultimately the roots of u.s. gun violence are so much deeper than guns, rules, or left or right.
and again i don't claim to fully understand them. i just think the round and round about which rules are going to solve or not solve the problem is a complete waste of time.
without a change in the fundamental collective assumptions, changing a law in either direction is just the tail attempting to wag the dog.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2013 - 02:57am PT
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Blame the Americans With Disabilities Act, which is responsible for all kinds of stupid sh#t.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Sep 10, 2013 - 03:22am PT
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More importantly... I'd really like to jump a shark.
Jus' sayn'
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sep 10, 2013 - 09:16am PT
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Feralfae, Doug would be proud and laughing robustly if he read that well thought out response.
Thanks for sharing and the best to you
If you have to resort to name calling Aric, you clearly don't have an argument. I'm sure you'd like people to join you in laughing at how lame blind people are since you seem to believe that when they lose their sight, they also lose their judgment.
"1. Kindly point to where I said that. If anything, I said that a blind person is incapable of determining by ear whether someone is wearing blue and wearing a badge.
2. F*#k you."
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Sep 10, 2013 - 09:33am PT
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As a shooting enthusiast.... Blind people should not carry... They're blind.
As an experienced human:
So many here want to protect their own by disarming the world. I get it, it just seems nicer. Sadly there will always be "bad seeds" or "those struggling" who will through brute force attempt to harm and/or kill innocent others. This is just a gross human fact. Perhaps those of you who are thumping your chest the loudest should ask yourself "how do I/will I protect me and my family". FYI, 911 is not a defense tool.
Too each his own. We are just a blip in time and completely irrelevant.
Cheers!
PS: if you want a proper interaction with a firearm, just message me and I would be happy to assist.
EDIT
not sure why the photo turned. It's not turned on my phone.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Sep 10, 2013 - 10:14am PT
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It's Iowa... so who gives a rat's ass? There's like 25 people living in Iowa. If they are gonna jump the shark that's the place to do it..
I'll take my chances with a blind gun-toting Iowan over your average sighted LA driver any day. The blind guy is less likely to kill you.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 10:45am PT
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I'm sure you'd like people to join you in laughing at how lame blind people are since you seem to believe that when they lose their sight, they also lose their judgment.
Once again, kindly point to where I said that.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 10:52am PT
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it's Iowa... so who gives a rat's ass? There's like 25 people living in Iowa. If they are gonna jump the shark that's the place to do it..
Thing is, it's not just in Iowa. Perhaps showing it as a map would be more effective.... A blind CCW permit holder from Iowa can legally carry everywhere marked in blue on this map regardless of local regulations preventing blind people from CCW:
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Sep 10, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
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adatesman,
Serious question:
Would you go on a climbing trip in Alaskan bear country without the recommended 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot and slugs (or just slugs)?
Would you opt out of the trip doto the gun recommendation?
I want to do an AK trip and I will bring a gun. I think it's craziness not to bring a gun.
---assuming I don't go blind before the trip--
Again, just an honest question.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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Sure, of course I would. Not sure what bearing that has on blind people wielding guns in public spaces though.
BTW, I mentioned right up from in the OP that I used to have a CCW permit, so it's not like I'm anti-gun or anti-CCW. Just pro-common sense in disallowing those who can not safely judge the down range ramifications of shooting a gun from doing so in public. How some are twisting that into "blind people are stupid and have poor judgement", I have no idea.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
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Actually, I've got an honest question for you: bad guy is in your sights. Wall behind him is drywall and there's a person somewhere in the room on the other side. Is it safe to shoot?
Also, do you see this scenario as different than how a blind person perceives the world?
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Sep 10, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
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In the interests of fairness to Iowans, it must be pointed out that nothing in Pennsylvania law would automatically prevent a blind person from obtaining a License to Carry either. I expect PA is not alone on this.
The Sheriff is obligated to investigate the applicant's criminal background, mental health, "character and reputation". In practice they don't always even phone the character references and there is no requirement to present in person, or complete any training.
To be fair to blind people, they can't do much worse than our last VP, what was his excuse?
TE
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 10, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
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If the argument against armed blind people holds water then in total darkness all the sighted people need to hand their guns to the blind guy because he has the greater sensory perception.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 10, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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bad guy is in your sights. Wall behind him is drywall and there's a person somewhere in the room on the other side. Is it safe to shoot?
That depends on the ammunition you are using. Frangible bullets eliminate problems like ricochet and over penetration.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 10, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
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If blindness is no hinderance to owning and operating a firearm, then why concede them any other special privileges? They clearly need none.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Sep 10, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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fill in the blanks...
----- invented a butt plug that doesn't pop out when you get the hiccups.
edit: oh, never mind! sorry, my bad... posted on the wrong thread (i thought this was the/a "joke" thread) lol.
i musta equated "fetishes" (in the OP) with butt-plugs (since they seem to be so popular on this site) and, well, i think ya get the picture. carry on...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 10, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
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Well Ron, I'd actually agree with you. In total darkness, a blind person would be better off. If it's totally dark and you have no idea what or who you're shooting at, then you shouldn't be pulling the trigger.
And I don't think adatesman is questioning the right of blind people to own guns. It's the CCW part that is the issue.
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