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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
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Oh this is interesting.
RRad comes into this thread and makes a statement about how Orcas are ambassadors. I got to thinking.... I've never seen this person post.
No wonder!
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?dcid=Ozg5Pjg6JSkl
1 post. Work for SeaWorld? Doing damage control?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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^^^^^
That's how I roll (pun intended!)
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RRad
Trad climber
Escondido, CA
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Oct 30, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Not really a good catch. I actually used to post here maybe 5 or six years ago under another name with a long lost password, don't have that email address any more and could not figure out how to retrieve the password.
Regarding seaworld, I've never worked there, but I have spent some time in the back areas where they rehab rescued animals and such, and that part of their operation is pretty wonderful. Having spent time with the rescued animals and the veterinarians and keepers that work with them I thought your comment about "closing seaworld" was a bit rash so I decided to have a look at what their conservation program actually looks like and write a post about it.
Other than that, good job pulling me out of lurking, I don't check in very often and when I do I prefer trip reports and dreaming of technicolor deserts and cool crisp high places. Even so, this forum has always been a fantastic place for me where so many amazing people come and go, a collection of stories from legends both living and dead.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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Oct 30, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
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Has anyone heard any evidence-based theories for the dorsal collapse? Can someone remind me... Is the dorsal collapse just in the males that are captive? Seems to me, there's no better symbolism for their plight than the dorsal collapse. Sure would be useful to have a reason (mechanism of action) for it.
Remember how cool, calm and collected Peters was with his encounter with the aggressive whale. I wonder of Brancheau might not have been so cool, calm and collected with Tilikum when she was pulled under - and a more aggressive response on her part (eg., pushing back, punching or kicking to get away; all quite normal a response) led to greater escalation in her mix-up with Tili? Just speculation. But too bad we just don't know.
The part about mixing orcas from different parts of the world, each with different culture and language, not to mention in a tiny sterile tank, rang pretty valid with me. How tragic.
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RRad
Trad climber
Escondido, CA
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Oct 30, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
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Just to clarify, I never said anything about orcas being ambassadors, in fact I think it is a very bad idea to keep large intelligent creatures, especially whales, in captivity.
If they ever become critically endangered in the wild it might be a different story, at that point captive breeding programs might be the way to go. But that is a whole different discussion.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
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RRad fair enough. Seeing you with one post well... easy assumption.
I understand part of the mission is to rehab animals. It's how they and most zoos got started.
But to capture Cetaceans and use them for their entertainment value is contradictory to any rehab work they might do. If there are any animals that are good candidates for being re-introduced to the wild it is the Cetaceans. Tilli would be welcome back to his pod some 35 years later. They'd remember him without a doubt.
I'll back off the close SeaWorld comment but state that they need to radically change their approach. A total and complete halt to parading Cetaceans out as entertainment is the goal while releasing those that can be released and moving the rest to open confinement to live out there days.
regarding the ambassadors comment - that was cliffhanger so I stand corrected. My apologies.
HFCS - they cite stats in the movie. Less than 1% in the wild suffer dorsal collapse. IIRC 60% in captivity. A total guess but I'd imagine it's because in the wild they can swim 100+ miles a day in a straight line. Hrydro-dynamics keep it upright. Again, complete guess.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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Oct 30, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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re: dorsal collapse
I don't know, I'd bet it points to an abnormal balance mentally, hormonally, or physiologically. Particularly if it's mostly or entirely male, which I thought the piece or literature said. A guess as well, but my last resort guess would be merely physical (e.g., hydro-dynamic because of the confines or whatever). But maybe though.
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Outside
Trad climber
Truckee
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Oct 30, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
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Watched the film.......nothing really that suprising besides taking the calfs away from mothers.
Yes, they take wild animals and put them in pens for entertainment, didn't we already know this since Seawold opened?
Long list of trainer incidents and a couple deaths over 3 decades, seems about right.....
I was expecting more I guess.
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