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crotch

climber

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:11am PT

Russ:

Question #1 - In 8th grade gym class, if noone ever said "period" to get out of showering, the locker room would look like a

A) Butcher Shop
B) Slaughterhouse
C) Murder Scene

Wonder

climber

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:16am PT

russ, are you the king, do you know more, send.

Russ Walling

Social climber

Out on the sand, Man.....

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:16am PT

Richard is an extraordinarily intelligent man - much more so than I am

Ah Ha!!! Just the slip I was looking for.... I think you just copped to being a man.

Scotland Yard is now off to bed.

EDIT Locker Style:

you just said "balance my checking account".
If that is not proof that you are a man, then nothing is.... a woman might as well try and dance on saturn as balance a check book... check mate!

JuanDeFuca

Big Wall climber

Stoney Point

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:30am PT

I want you to make sure all the patients take their Thorazine tonight! Did you get that.

Anastasia

Trad climber

Near a mountain, CA

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:31am PT

I am a woman and do climb.
I also share places like Stoney, Joshua Tree and Yosemite with non-climbers. Since the majority of these non-climbers are enjoying being there as much as I, they are great to have around. I think this forum is similar. Non-climbers are the ones watching us, cheering us on and laughing at our antics. If you can appreciate us crazy climbers, I welcome you. I think non-climbers are an essential part of the climbing community. I know many of you have supported us despite our ignorance of it's positive influence.

Anyway, I did the period thing too. I hated P.E. because I was teased for being under developed. I didn't have anything to justify wearing a bra. I kept forgetting to wear a training bra for aesthetics and suffered being teased for my lack of womanhood.
Luckily I was just a late bloomer with a bang. Then... I still did the period thing because I hated to run for my chest was all sensitive from growing. Being a woman has it's moments. Thanks for reminding me of it with your post, the memories are making me laugh.
I also agree that we as a group are more intelligent then others, though sometimes I wonder about how accurate my view of this is since I am assuredly bias.
"Bump!"

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 13, 2006 - 04:01am PT

OK, an impression I always had was that LEB posted more like a west coaster than an east coaster... so I wrote a spider to check a few posting habits. I selected Juan, a known westie, TradisGood (TiG), a known eastie, and LEB, putatively an eastie... ploting the frequency of posts per hour during the day yields:

You can see that TiG is about 3 hour ahead, posting in the morning around 3-4am PST (6-7am EST), then again around lunch time, then off to bed some time around 10 to 11 pm EST...

The same thing happens with Juan... except he is delayed 3 hours with respect to TiG because of the 3 hour delay east to west...

Now LEB looks more like Juan then TiG, which was my impression....

This could be the statistics of small numbers... I haven't corrected for weekends/weekdays and I didn't do daylight savings corrections... and I could have gotten it all wrong.

Anyway, just something interesting to ponder...

Edit: I added my post frequency, I live in Livermore, which is the west coast... you may have to reload this page to get the updated file in your cache...

TradIsGood

Trad climber

Gunks end of country

Jul 13, 2006 - 08:14am PT

Ed, LOL. Why didn't you do LEB and DMT? It could be that LEB really is a woman, and DMT is a woman pretending to be a man. They troll each other often enough that it could just be an attempt at misdirection.

When I post under my westie alias, I try to keep the time zones in mind. Though sometimes I slip up and post under the wrong alias.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Jul 13, 2006 - 08:39am PT

Except TradIsGood, while I have never met Dingus, I believe there are those on this forum who have and can testify that he is who he says, and also some of his threads/posts/photos such as the climbs at Donnells Reservoir shows that he is both a man and a climber.

So I will take him at his word.

LEB, I am not to sure about. But it never struck me that Dingus and Lois are the same person.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jul 13, 2006 - 09:39am PT

LEB is not a troll. That's what makes her so diabolically effective.

Here's a little irony from Lois lifted from this classic thread of the past

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=81864

Lois: "I have trouble following your posts because they are so complex and long. You are obviously a very intelligent man who can put forth and process a great deal of information in a very short time. I for one cannot follow something that long and that complex without printing it out and studying it in detail to analyze what you are saying.

I think it would be better if you could take one point maybe two at a time in a post and then we can all analyze and comment on what you are saying. I believe you are covering too much ground in one post and people get discouraged before they can finish everything you are saying. Can you try to post one or two important points and then we can look at that. Sometimes when you are a very intelligent, analytical person, you have to bring it down a notch or two so that everyone else can follow.

....Now it is true that I have not been reading your posts carefully but in my own defense, KBD, they are sooo....oooo long. It is hard to read and digest as much as you offer however interesting and enlightening it might be. I think if you offered some of these ideas in smaller packages I might get more of it. You have to remember, I work anywhere from 14-18 hours a day, almost every day. I use this forum as a little mental escape when I am on my computer (and I must admit it is getting a bit addictive and taking away far more time from my work then I imagined.) While I am shifting through the ever mountainous piles of work I must do, I sneak a way here and there to the url (which is minimized on my task tray) to see what is being posted. When I see the long posts you put up I say, "Oh S___, I can't deal with this now, I have too much work to do - I'll have to come back to this later" And later never comes because the amount of information you put up is overwhelming

Why can you have shorter posts and not put so much information into any one of them. We have all the time in the world - I am ever at this damn computer trying to get all my work done. I am not going anywhere. You don't have to tell me so much all at once - I can't process that much at one time and still get all my work done. I have more work than should be given to one person but that is just the way it is and it is not likely to change in the near future. "

Seems like she's found more time to share

Peace

Karl

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 13, 2006 - 11:38am PT

hey, I never said anything about a troll...

I chose avatars that I had a reasonable guess as to where they posted from, coast wise. When I put my post frequency up, it is "west coast" also (I'll do it later, I have to get to work now).

A person's choice of avatar, and the story built around the avatar, is their own creation. For some reason it seems important that there is no deception involved when posting to a Forum such as this one... or at least the same amount of truth stretching that one might find in person. As a climbing community, we migh know or learn of each other through our journeys... for the non-climbers, we may never meet them. Because they expend resource (that resouce being time to respond) it is normal to want that to be meaningful, that is, we are responding to a real person. It is strange to me, since a forum is disembodied... and the ongoing script is worth something independent of the identity of the authors.

Anyway, my post was just a strange statistical musing... take it or leave it.

I do not accuse anyone of anything here, nor do I judge.

"just the facts, mam"

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Jul 13, 2006 - 11:56am PT

classic, biggest beef with some of these bandwidth hogs(and the reason i'm constantly having to go back through the top 3 pages to find climbing content i've posted on in the last few days)

90% of that^ post could have been carried out in an email. it's simple, go to hotmail, get an account, and quit cluttering up the front page w/ this crap.

yes, i know, i just bumped it again, but i'm hoping some day this "very intelligent individual" will learn to use their email account

TradIsGood

Trad climber

Gunks end of country

Jul 13, 2006 - 12:01pm PT

The reason I am always evasive with LEB is that "she" still does not know that "she" and I are the same. I have told "her" before that we are the same, but "she" firmly does not want to believe it. Answering "her" questions might just be too disturbing.

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Jul 13, 2006 - 12:43pm PT

the ones that are slipping to page 2 are only a few hours old. it's just that the non climbers post more frequently. again, how many of these conversations could be taken to email.

due to the dirth of interesing threads on the fp at the moment, i've been searching for some older ones i haven't seen in a while. the last search i did was "favorite wall pic's" and the top 3 results were you asking various inane questions in climbing threads. of the first 25 results about half involved you either as an OP or having a side conversation in the thread.

b/c we don't have an advanced search function here, i can't type NOT LEB into the query, so i can't even exclude your responses from the results.

this spider conversation is the perfect example, why can't you hit the email link rather than the reply link if it has nothing to do with supertopo? in the time you've spent asking ed for info on this thread alone, i'm sure you could have put together a well thought out email and googled "spider, searching, software" and gotten much more information.

edit: the query was "favorite walls" don't want this to turn into a semantic issue.

Teth

climber

Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Jul 13, 2006 - 01:26pm PT

LEB:

I have to take issue with your premiss that climbers are the type of people who enjoyed gym class. Weather the games were too structured for their anarchical mind set, or they were just scrawny weaklings like me, I suspect most climbers will admit to not caring much for gym. You do not have to be an athlete to climb; climbing will make you an athlete. If you (general “you”, not you in particular) are carrying too much weight, then start on slab (slab = too steep to walk up, but far less than vertical. Most of your weight is still on your feet and your arms only keep you from sliding or tipping over.) Climbers are just another group of nerds and geeks; it is the climbing which make us look the way we do.

On a related subject, has anyone been in a climbing gym and watched a body builder try to climb? It has got to be one of the most entertaining and satisfying things you can do in a gym. To make it more fun, wait until they collapse in exhaustion or declare how hard it is, then walk over an casually do laps on whatever they were attempting. It is particularly funny if you look like the type of scrawny little man who they would kick sand on at the beach. Actually, it is even more entertaining if a woman does laps on the problem which just spanked them! My wife like to do that. Big egos also are fun to toy with, and body builders usually have big egos.

But back to Leb: The best indication of your gender is the speed at which you type. (Although I suppose there are some men who could keep up.) I can’t even read your posts as fast as you can type them, but then I am dyslexic and don’t read that fast.

Teth

Teth

climber

Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Jul 13, 2006 - 02:43pm PT

Leb:

I suppose that it a fascinating subject, although 98% of the people on this forum would have taken that as self-evident. Here is a related observation you may find interesting. Most of these strong wiry men tend to develop larger more impressive looking muscles when they get older and start losing muscle density.

Regarding non-climbing topics, I think there should be a General forum and a Climbing forum. People read these forums for two reasons: 1) to obtain climbing related information, and 2) to waste time with general discussions with their peer group. (I use the term “waste” to main “for entertainment value rather than substance”.) I came here to gather climbing information, and although I have gotten caught up in a couple of these non climbing discussion, I have not yet found a climbing thread. It is a bit frustrating! I am sure all the intelligent climbers you so love to talk to would still visit and post in the General thread, but at least we would be able to find the climbing threads more easily. The fact that new threads slip off the front page in less than 24 hours seems like a big problem to me, particularly if it involves a climbing related question or observation, which gets buried so quickly that the experts may never see it.

Teth

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jul 13, 2006 - 03:01pm PT

Well, I googled "Lois E. Brenneman", and guess what? There's lots and lots of stuff on the web under that name. All entirely consistent with her identity as a middle-aged nursing instructor living on the east side. None of the hits are climbing related, except ST posts. If LEB in fact posts under her own name, and some other alias, it's a pretty elaborate setup. Even given popular interest in conspiracy theories, why bother?

I too am quite fascinated by the spider business. I understand the concept, but the implementation seems mysterious.

Lois: It seems unlikely that 98% of the people on ST are climbers. No way of tracking visitors and lurkers (Ed: can you make a spider do that?), or in any case of knowing anything about people unless they divulge. I'd guess a majority, maybe 80%+. Not 98%.

Teth: There are lots of climbing threads - over half the headers on the current first page are climbing related, some with 100 or more posts.

Anders

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 13, 2006 - 03:25pm PT

I updated the graph to show my posting history too... I'll add others later.

I probably won't add all of you... there is still some stuff I have to do by hand which makes it a bit of work (but I'll probably rewrite the output format in the Perl script to minimize the hand crafting).

Spiders don't seem so exotic to me. However, I live and think of a world that is not anthro-centric; people are mostly irrelevant to the universe I am trying to understand, and the tools I use extend our normal senses so that something can be learned beyond our native senses.

The simple spider I have written has essentially three elements. The first is the ability to go out on the web in a prescribed manner to look at web pages, down load them as a text stream; this is the input stage. The second has the ability to search that string of characters looking for the information I have specified. The third is to format the found information in a manner that I can use, say in a spread sheet, that is output.

Once written, the spider executes from my computer the command sequences, obtains, collects and formats the information for me, which I then analyze, sometimes using a utility like MSExcel.

There are a number of languages to write spiders in, I use Perl, but that it is by no means the best or easiest, or most powerful... I just speak it.

The whole process is just computer programming... which I have been doing for close to 40 years.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jul 13, 2006 - 03:27pm PT

LEB I will address some of the other questions later, I do have work to do...
and you see by my post history that I mostly post in the morning before work and in the evening after D goes to bed.