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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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I am 55 years old, and half spent nearly 4 1/2 years of my life in hospitals -- six months here, three months there, and many, many dozens of two to three week to four week stays -- many, many weeks of those years in the ICU. Sh#t, I've racked up another month just since April! If there were anything to the so-called "death panels" I'd be the first one to go. So I have followed all this with an inordinately intense level of interest. Right now I have high option Federal BC/BS and I've studied the living daylights out of any and all potential effects the Affordable Health Care Act might have on my coverage. I've also discussed the act at length with my many doctor. Cragman, you are at best uninformed, and at worst an uninformed ass.
June 19, 2013. Thee IV's running at once and I was hallucinating that there were seven angels in the room. I really should write a book.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
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If none of us can afford to pay for our own healthcare, how are we supposed to be able to pay for everybody else's?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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"Chaz -We already pay for everyone's health care --- that is the simplest rule you should know first from an encyclopedia of complex money, economy and health care ...
Do you understand why this is rule number 1?"
So, what needs to be done different? LESS government involvement? LESS passing around of the costs? That would mean more individual self-reliance, wouldn't it? I'm not sure I understand what your idea of a fix would look like.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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"i guess now that its obamacare, obama just went with the flow huh?"
NOW you're getting it, Ronno!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
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Holy cow, Cragman presents himself as a Christian? The Apostles are facepalming in dismay right now.
Here's an old Larry Norman riff for you to play at your next bible study, Cragman.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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If I remember my Bible correctly, Jesus had nothing but contempt for tax collectors.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
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What in the hell does this thread have to do with Jesus?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
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So, what needs to be done different?...
I'm not sure I understand what your idea of a fix would look like.
Why not take a tour of every other first-world country, and see what they've done? See what works. What doesn't work. Try to figure out why things either work or don't work in all of those countries. Then try to put all the best things in place in the US?
Ah, no. Why bother? Far easier to stay home and yell "Socialism!"
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
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If I remember my Bible correctly, Jesus had nothing but contempt for tax collectors.
I humbly submit it's entirely possible you are not recalling your bible correctly. Maybe you're thinking of the moneychangers in the temple?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
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What in the hell does this thread have to do with Jesus?
Well, it was authored by a bible thumper.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
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rSin nails it.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
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rsin writes:
"jesus paid all the taxes he own'd"
What was the tax rate then? Serfs had 1/3 of the fruits of their labor confiscated, and they were considered owned by others. Jesus certainly didn't support slavery, did He?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 30, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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No John...I rejoice in being hated for the sake of Christ!
Well, that you self-identify with Christ, Dean...but, then why post comments Christ wouldn't say, such as, "Busting the balls of you haters".
I've incited serious displeasure in past discussions, vis a vis religion, by acting high and mighty....ultimately realizing the dislike was due to my own hoity-toity attitude rather than anything I did for the "sake of Christ."
I believe you are a praiseworthy, altruistic person and value many of your opinions. But I think we need be circumspect incorporating Christ in validating our own personal opinions or presence on the forum.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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So many here need to learn how to discuss
Some of us actually tried, but it turned out that the person who really didn't want to "discuss" was you. You were happy to shout that Obamacare sucks, but when politely asked to discuss the matter, your response was that you really didn't know anything about healthcare, that socialism sucked, and that that liked to "bust the balls" of people who disagree with you.
Go look in the mirror.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
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People don't hate you for Jesus cragman - they hate you because you are a fundamentalist right wing lunatic - you have nothing to do with Jesus ...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1586396&tn=0&mr=0
Here is the deleted bear killing thread and deleted pics.
Has anyone filed charges yet for this obvious lie concerning a cornered bear and its being shot in the back 5 times?
After a year thinking about this it only makes me more and more sick to my stomach.
And when running the story by many friends and family in Canada who have lived around bears their entire lives, and know nothing else about this guy, they all also feel the story is bullshit and doesn't add up..
I'm sure there are many people in June lake who feel the same concerning this lunatic.
Time for someone to be given this information and charges filed ...
Dude, Riley, what the hell man? I don't understand your blood thirst for Dean?
I remember sitting in El Cap Meadow with my dad, you and your girls, and Dean on Father's Day 2012 watching Hans and Alex break the speed record. You were so mellow and having a great time chatting with Dean and my dad.
Now you're hating away on him. What's the deal bro?
Need to chill man. :)
It's so effin sad and pathetic to see so much vile among this community.
Everyone needs to get the fawk over themselves. One day Dean may just be the man who pulls your ass out of a near death situation when SAR gets called.
Sheesh, go climb something! :)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
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Lotta bunched panties here :) haha.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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I've incited serious displeasure in past discussions, vis a vis religion, by acting high and mighty....ultimately realizing the dislike was due to my own hoity-toity attitude rather than anything I did for the "sake of Christ."
Thanks Jennie. I really appreciate that.
I'm not certain that Dean gets what you meant.
It sure is a prickly day. I feel it pretty intensely. I woke up grumpy. I'm sorry Dean if I was demeaning to you in any way. I do wish that you would try to see what Jennie is saying and how you come across to many of us. I do understand that some people dislike anyone who loves God. But that isn't always the case
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
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There is no need to demonize the President as an individual. The Obamacare bill was pased by our system of government.
Yes health care reform is drastically needed, but the bill, as passed, is hugely flawed. Many people will benefit but many others will pay a high price.
As a predictable effect of the phasing in of Obamacare and the need to meet the mandates for coverage: I just opened my mail to find out that Aetna is no longer going to be offering individual coverage plans in California. I now need to go out and find new coverage by the end of the year.
The real negative impact of this law is going to be on people who actually pay for their medical insurance. I've already seen it in the rate of change of my premium increases as parts of the law have been phased in. Much higher rate of increase every six months, with specific language in the cover letter explaining that the new rate is necessary to comply with the new coverages mandated by the law.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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I agree that the current form is flawed. We need to get the insurance industry to follow a non profit plan like they do in other countries. Or get them out of the healthcare paradigm completely.
that said, under the old plan I will never be able to afford health insurance because of pre existing conditions. So its death is welcome to me.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
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To play devils advocate,
I think all of this will force people to take better care of themselves and to just have a policy with a high deductible for the more serious emergencies. It will also encourage doctors to go to cash only and reduce their rates, and cut the insurance companies out of the loop.
It will all get worse before things get better.
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