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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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stick around here for a while and you may be convinced that climate change is a myth, the earth is flat and sandy hook was an inside job.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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I just climbed the first 5.16 in woodfords canyon yesterday, it is unconfirmed and I think it may stay that way for a while.
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joy bar
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
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I make all my life decisions on what I read on super topo.
Don't U?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Of course.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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In 1994, Alberto Salazar, ten years after winning the NY Marathon three times, won the Comrades ultra marathon (54 miles, South Africa). He attributed this success to prozac.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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and WHY were they prescribed the drug in the first place???...
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Bad Climber
climber
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Interesting anecdote about Salazar. Small world: I actually know his brother, a retired fighter pilot, although I think he still works for the military just no longer in the pilot's seat. Quite a family of achievers, that one!
BAd
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Uh, Climbski2, Tylenol is not an NSAID. Just for the record. Cheers.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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hey..looky there..I just looked it up and P is correct and I was wrong. Tylenol (Acetominophen) does not apparently have anti-inflamatory properties.. I learned something new. Thanks patrick. Thus why I personally don't argue with several real experts who all quickly and independantly agree on something.
I am much more likely to be wrong than they are.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Balanced approaches seem a good place to look first.
No I don't blindly trust doctors. But I almost certainly would follow the advice of several doctors who independently agree when I go get 2nd and third opinions. Once taking their advice I'd be fully informed of possible negative side-effects and I'd carefully monitor the effects and look to make possible adjustments if something isn't going well. Keeping always an eye on the cost-benefit balance.
I absolutely would look to types of counseling. This helps in so many ways. No counseling and just drugs is only going half the distance of proper mental health care. It can be an critical part of the monitoring of the drugs effects. positive and or negative.
I would also look at possible improvement or specific issues of my diet.. hard to see how that could hurt and it certainly might help. But I wouldn't make it my main focus.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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yep it seems we are agreeing I might have just got caught up saying things a bit differently.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I like Juan's posts. He knows what he is talking about.
I'm a family doctor, who probably prescribed antidepressants in some form virtually every day of my 30 year career. Never had a suicide, but I was not treating high-risk people. Probably used them more for sleep disorders than anything. Prozac was not one of my favorites, but it got used.
Being a family doc, I tend to take a larger overview of a person. I think their social and family milieu is very important to both diagnosis and treatment.
For example, the first thing that jumped out at me was the manipulation that this teen must encounter.....and teens do not respond well to manipulation. It means, to them, that they cannot trust the source.
What am I talking about? The title of the thread states "climbing related"----and clearly, it is not. That was a manipulation, and says to me that the information supplied by the OP is not trustworthy. You might consider what you are forcing upon your teen, and that her reaction is to that. This is commonly the case with anorexia, as well.....an attempt by a person to gain some control of their environment.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Just prescribing meds without including talk therapy is downright irresponsible and unprofessional.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Just prescribing meds without including talk therapy is downright irresponsible and unprofessional.
Really? so you do not subscribe to the concept that the method of treatment is entirely for the patient to decide? That a patient should not be in a position of being able to consent to what type of treatment they desire, if any, to receive?
The problem is when one starts down the "only", "never", "always" path. There is never anything that works with everyone, all the time.
I suppose you can "blackmail" patients: "I won't give you a medication unless you submit to talk therapy"-----but where is the ethics in that?
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matlinb
Trad climber
Albuquerque
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Just when I think it's not worth lurking on the Supertopo forum because of all the crap threads, posts from Juan and Ken come along.
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TheTye
Trad climber
Sacramento CA
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I went through some tough depression/anxiety times and a friend gave me a book on "cognitive therapy" that totally change my perspective. That was years ago and whenever I feel my thoughts trending that direction I can shut them down with logic. It is cool stuff.
I can't remember the name of the book. Sorry.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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this threads depressing
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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depressed people probably tend to be a little more low key
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joy bar
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
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Depression is fully a climbing related topic.
Which if the reference to "Death Grip" doesn't convince you, just think of
all the folks who are vertical legends that have killed themselves.
One might argue that the let down after each major climb leads to a cycles of ups and downs (both physically and mentally) which over the long term leads many climbers into a depressive state between climbs and when they retire or cull back the risks they take.
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Sort of some strange attacks here on a parent who is both concerned and frighten about their kid's well being.
As they used to say in my day, take a chill pill.
that aside, The back and forth has been great,
thanks
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Just a few thoughts and suggestions, based primarily on my own experiences...
Have blood work done to make sure it's not a simple nutrient imbalance.
It's well worth having the docs test for celiac disease, including the genetic testing. I spent 41 years of my life hiding my feelings of depression, in large part because my family told me I had nothing to be depressed about and was, in essence, being SELFISH. I figured out that life-long severe anxiety and depression in my case was caused by the gluten in most grains. My life would have been entirely different, had this been discovered early -- instead of expending most of my energy on a day-to-day basis struggling to do things most people consider normal, but to me were herculean tasks (e.g., getting out of bed, dressed and actually going outside), this energy could have been utilized in a million different positive, life-enhancing ways.
When you are suffering from depression and anxiety, learning to cope with the ups and downs of life isn't even on the radar -- day to day, moment to moment survival is. If there's one thing that still raises my hackles (hence my response to this post well past my self-imposed sleep curfew), it's the idea that somehow, the depressed person has brought this upon herself, whether it be lack of coping skills, character flaws (read: unable to cope like everyone else), unwillingness to see all the good things she has in her life, etc. These ideas about depression are IGNORANT and DANGEROUS, and actually make the depressed person feel even worse.
Talking about a depressed child as if she is "the one with the problem" is similarly injurious. Frequently, the most sensitive child in a family will reflect what is going on inside of the family. Asserting that parents, siblings, etc. contribute in no way to a child's situation is frankly disturbing -- it essentially means that the child is an island and has been walled off by the family and isolated for...what? Being human?
If anorexia is present, first check to make sure she does NOT have celiac disease. I suffered with an eating disorder for 5 years in my teens -- or at least that was what I was told I was suffering from. In reality, I had already found what to eat to feel good, but my limited diet (largely vegetable based) was unacceptable to my parents and I was essentially force-fed food that made me sick (i.e., severely anxious and depressed).
If I am exposed to gluten now, I can chart roughly what I will be feeling when as it works its way through my system. Anywhere from 3-5 weeks after being exposed, I start suffering from severe, debilitating anxiety attacks and howling depression. Consciously, I know this will happen, but it doesn't make the physical manifestation of the feelings any less real.
A couple of resources to consider in conjunction with therapy (vetted and used multiple times throughout my life):
Book: Feeling Good (and the Feeling Good workbook) - can't remember author off-hand
CD/DVD series (infomercial) called "Attacking Anxiety and Depression" by Lucinda Basset (This really does work. Can not recommend it highly enough.)
Final thoughts:
Bootstrapping doesn't work. Period.
DMT started an interesting discussion on "Anxiety" a little while back -- there may be some helpful information for you there, too.
My birth dad committed suicide in his late 30s -- there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about this...but then, I never had the chance to meet him and only accidentally discovered that I have celiac disease (which he very likely also suffered from) some 40 years after his death. What I would give to be able to travel back in time and tell hime of my discovery...but it's too late. (I wrote more about this in a TR called something like "Brandon's post on fear".)
I'm curious -- how does your daughter feel about being prescribed an anti-depressant? Have the doctors suggested a medication that works particularly well in anxious patients? Klonopin works particularly well for panic attacks.
Best of luck to you and your family, really.
A
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