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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:21pm PT
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Lois,
Those Flimsy aluminum things are called a Portaledge. The are actually pretty comfy compaired to staying on hard rock. Sort of cool hanging on the side of a cliff on one of these things. They even make them for Two.
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:26pm PT
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" I think it is important to give credit where credit is due: the killer photo of El Cap in red with the helicopter was taken by Mike Shore. He graciously allowed the Friends of YOSAR to use it on their site, and later it hit the cover of one of the mags. It is copyrighted and Mike does not want it used freely. Please respect his wishes.
Great photo, Mike"
I agree, it is a fantastic photo, and I hope no one misunderstood thinking I took it. Definitely not the case. All due credit should go to him, as he's an amazing climbing photographer.
Anyway, I just linked the picture through from Rock Climbing.com where he posted it, didn't save it, not hosting it myself, etc. I'm going to leave it up for the time being, but if I hear from Mike that he wants it taken down, I'll respect his wishes in that regard and edit a removal.
I just think that photo is an excellent one of El Cap with something that can provide definite scale - the nearby helo. In other pictures, it still doesn't seem like the Captain is that large, but when you put something like that next to it, you realize it really is a vertical sea of rock.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 20, 2006 - 11:24am PT
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Lois,
That last comment echoes something I wrote about Yabo's passing.
When Yabo left, Peter Mayfield's mother, Melody, wrote a poem and sent it to me. I wrote back to her and said that people don't completely go until we do; meaning they live on inside us as influencers, through their gifts of perspective, idea, sentiment.
I am quite existentialist in this regard. To me, spiritual strength and the great unknown notwithstanding, most all of our meaning is derived through direct experience. So albeit self referential, my experience of others is highly internal. John Long, Bachar, Werner and other major influencer's of my life's work live within my direct consciousness on a daily level through their examples.
So yes, Yabo lives, because I still feel him. I still do and see things as I follow some of his ways of apprehending life. To a very real degree I say we see with the eyes of others and you know that developementaly this has merit in terms of our upbringing and it's influence. Of course we are ultimately driving the bus and form our own unique perspectives, but the collective narrative we share is very strong.
Could you please direct me to Karl's comments Lois. Although drug abuse cannot ever be underestimated as a major component of mental hardship, I am not sure that it estimates or constitutes the majority of weight on Yabo's shoulders. I would call it a co--factor or more weight on the lever, but not the lever and not the fulcrum. It is said he sniffed some glue in his early teens; no doubt that is a horrible insult to the brain. In his 30's he seemed to have stabilizied quite a bit; nevertheless his tremendous angst was often tied to emotional ties with women. When you look at Werner's comments about insecurity and understand how great the esteem and belonging issues are for some men per their emotional ties with women -and then add it to their encounter with and estimation of artistic/athletic/career achievemnets in general, perhaps some of the drivers become clear.
Many of us, Yabo especialy, eschewed all but our climbing and our drives for belonging. Think about that as an imbalance in itself. The focus brings great things, inspiring achievement, but perhaps as a foundation it is lacking. I think many achievers are single minded, eccentric, and vulnerable as a consequence.
Cheers,
Here's to insight or the fun in pursuing it!
Yabo and I had a number of conversations in this regard;
Although sometimes perhaps conceptualy naive (who is not), he was earnest.
Roy
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 20, 2006 - 11:50pm PT
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Check on that stuff Lois,
I've known a good handful of Bi-polar folks and known them well. I've been right in the Maelstrom of the struggle with some. My sister is all of that.
Have you ever read Ken Wilber on Transpersonal Psychology? Its a model he essentially coined and championed.
Good point about Karl's statements.
Thanks for the words; I've lost quite a good number of very close partners and commune with them much in the way you describe, with the exception perhaps of not so many definite answers. Not so many questions. I tend to put out thanks. We are all we have. That said a little help is good and I'll look a little closer to your suggestion.
An open heart is a wonderful thing.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 21, 2006 - 12:14am PT
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What part of the brain exactly is not working properly?
What causes the mood swings of bipolar disorder?
Can one have a mild case?
Can one be tested for this disorder?
Juan
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 21, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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Lois
Tarbuster does not have to read Karls piece. He knows Yabo real well, much more than most folks here.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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Thanks Russ!
Care to join us for a Yabaho Seance?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:15am PT
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No seance for me.. he still haunts me.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:25am PT
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Gee Lois,
Thanks for putting the word out, it produced fast on the Karl Piece.
Although Werner was correct per my thorough familiarity with Yab, I will likely enjoy the read anyhow.
Hey Russ,
Er I mean Muss Man,
Yabo may haunt you, but that Liberace get up you trotted out at the JT reunion still haunts me dude.
Vance is mad, yes, but you are madder...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:39am PT
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wow, i just took a peek at those yabo links.
that errett allen pic on the jtree thread is spoo-ooky!
i think i know what was going down there...
(errett lives out here btw, super guy)
the supertopo thread- thanks russ, that was spun out before i went down the bunny hole and landed here in supertopia.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 11:37am PT
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Dean Fidelman was/is known as "Bullwinkle".
During the late 70's, he took a bunch of very, very nice b&w photos of all of us. I recently posted a few of them on the early Stonemasters thread and he was a little miffed until he realized who I was. He had given me a bunch of them for a college project in the late 70's. We had a long talk about the Stonemasters era and such. The short of it is that he makes his living as a pro photographer and does not post here, as his energies are focused on cultivating his professional standing.
You can see the "Stone Nudes" Calender series for some of his work, some of the stuff in Lynn's book is his, and the recent Rock and Ice which features the Stonemaster article by John Long shows Dean's work.
Yabo being a stud?
Boys will be boys Lois.
Etymology is all of the above.
A lot of our behaviour was less than noble and often meant as an easy route to a good laugh. One aspect of setting out as an itinerant climber is the ability to be self entertained and that often falls upon the easy hours filled with silliness. While some climbers might play chess or hike around scouting new routes, others would heckle each other endlessly.
We had a lot of free time on our hands. Russ and I used to say we had the needs of men and the means of boys.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:32pm PT
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Yes that was pretty funny ROX and fairly right on.
I'll have to spool up on this one Lois.
Keep in mind the core Stonemasters was a small tight knit group and in many ways represented the cream; ROX is correct insofar as many others were essentially striving and doing neat stuff in the same manner.
I was influenced but not core, as I am just now soon to be 46, started climbing in '73, but really began to hit my stride in '77.
More later.
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 01:39pm PT
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5. What was it about this era and this particular group which made you so unique and garner such a place in "history" as it were. Obviously there were men who climbed before you in the 40s 50s 60s - Obviously men (and now women, even!) climbed after you 80s, 90s etc. So what was it then which gave you all such fame and "grandeur?" How exactly did you garner this lore which now seems to surround you regarding those time.
There were a number of eras important in Yosemite climbing history. The Stonemaster era is just more prevalant here (and is also probably the last "age" that had a disctintive local group of high caliber climbers, who often lived in the Valley).
Here is my biased summation:
The 1930s bringing modern roped climbing, and ascents like Royal Arches and Higher Cathedral Spire.
The 1940s Further refinement of big wall climbing and ethics, Lost Arrow Chimney, Steck-Salathe route.
The 1950s to 1960s (The Golden Age) The most impressive walls first done, Half Dome, El Capitan, and an increased move towards free climbing goals.
The 1970s (Stonemasters). Even more free climbing at an amazing new level. First free ascents on previous aid climbs (Astroman) and in a day ascents of big walls (The Nose).
The 1980s. Lycra and sport climbing come about. A little bit of climbing's soul dies. LOL. But Bachar and Croft do The Nose and Half Dome in a day.
The 90s and beyond. diversification, bouldering, hard aid. First Free ascent of the Nose and more.
They are all standing on the shoulders of giants. Each generation is inspired by the previous one.
There are some good books on other eras (e.g. Camp 4 about the golden age). But my favorite book is The Vertical World of Yosemite by Rowell. Articles and photos from many great ascents starting with the second ascent of Half Dome in 1884 and ending at the end of the Golden Age in the early 1970s.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd love to see Largo dedicate a whole book to the Stonemasters, ala Camp 4.
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:58pm PT
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seems such a trivial point after the serious insight, but back to the orientation of the photos, and then waxing to bigger issues...
I pondered the orientation of my own photos from up high, and I've concluded they are both correct. Just a matter of perspective. If your back/butt is to the rock and you're looking out or down, seeing the ground on top makes sense. If you're facing in to the rock (i.e. forehead toward the stone while looking down), then it makes sense to portray the picture with ground on bottom and it looks more overhanging. No trickery here, just go with what represents the moment best. We have a 2D picture of a 3D event, and anything that helps convey that reality is fair game in my book.
Now for some delving into people who have strong attitudes on this... I see a pattern here I've been immersed in most of my life and it seems to parallel a common theme in "rock climbing culture" if you can call it that. People who comment on the "rotated photo" thing have issues with self-aggrandizement, or struggle with how their actions affect whether or not they are accepted by others.
Most climbers eschew fashion or self-aggrandizement as lame or lowly pursuits. Ironically, one thing that most seems to label climbers is not wanting to be labeled. The anti-fashion is binding and restrictive fashion itself. Being purposefully low-key, giving low estimates of climbing ratings (in partial hopes that others will come along and say "phew! that was stout! you are burly!"), is part of trying to be cool and get acceptance from peers.
After moving a lot when I was a kid I was planted with a new bunch of folks from 5th grade on, I was acutely sensitive to being accepted. After a rough time in junior high, I reached a point of saying fVck it and stopped trying to be accepted, and ironically this is when I became widely accepted (precisely when I stopped giving a shit).
I think the underlying model here is this: acceptance can be considered like a commodity for borrowing/trading just like money. Most people, feeling a shortage of the commodity "acceptance", want to associate with others where they will get it, rather than have to give it. So displaying a blatant need for acceptance ("do you like me? do you like me? please like me!!") pushes people a way, and saying "fVck acceptance" makes it seem like you accept yourself and draws others toward you because you might sluff off some of that extra acceptance you already seem to have. Now, you can honestly accept yourself and really be "cool", or you can be a smart person who figures out this system and "games" it to trick others to accept you (or maybe you're gaming it out of a sincere effort to move toward the goal of who you want to be). Typical pattern in the gaming scenario is acting like you don't care, externally acting like the "cool" person but inwardly craving acceptance. I'll go out on a limb as an armchair psychologist with no knowledge of the famous climbing personalities other that what I've read, and say many fall into this category of struggling with acceptance, being smart enough to figure out the game, and trying to twist it to their advantage without fixing the underlying real need for self acceptance.
I'm not denying other factors or motivations, just highlighting a prominent one.
Me for example, I struggle with the awareness of my craving for acceptance, but I try to keep it at bay as one of the many signal feeds that I don't necessarily need to act on. But it is a factor in my posts here (and maybe to a *very* small extent my climbing); for me, the bigger urge these days is trying to relive times when I climbed alot and the pleasure I derived from that, because I've made other life choices that limit my climbing time at present (career family etc.).
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 02:14pm PT
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Great post nutjob.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 22, 2006 - 01:02am PT
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that was a nice thought stream nutjob.
lois, the mags started doing this thing with turning the photos like that about 10 odd years ago.
like werner said way upthread: it is really not right, because we know it is a crafty manipulation, a simple turn of the screw to get more feel.
it is for the most part not so much incorrect, because perspective can be argued, but contextualy it is unconventional, feels hyped, and looks un-natural. thus nutjob's thoughts.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 22, 2006 - 01:08am PT
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lois,
it also occurs to me that no one has addressed your original on topic question about the significance of Lynn's free ascent of the Nose vis a vis the guys not doing it?
well, i can tell you she is a superlative athlete and is off the charts in our sport, like a michael jordan.
she has also been one of the few people on the globe to really garner a living as a pure rock climber; sure guides make a modest living, but in an international vein, late 80's and throughout the 90's and perhaps to date she's really tagged it.
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 22, 2006 - 02:23pm PT
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Thanks for the acceptance! As seemingly inconsequential part of my life as my intellect tells me this forum is, my emotional self is basking in the praise ;)
I took a basic climbing-centric point for granted:
Lois, by *orienting* (note I'm not saying 'rotating') the picture such that ground is on bottom, it simply makes the rock appear more steep. This implies the route is more difficult to climb, and hence the person in the photo is a better climber (a.k.a. worthy of more acceptance, and the publisher of a magazine, by mere association, worthy of more acceptance and $$).
I contend that if a climb is vertical or very nearly so, the orientation of the photo is ethically neutral. If the climb is substantially less than vertical (e.g. "slabby" meaning at a less steep angle), then turning the picture upside down really does give a different impression of the nature of the climb, and this is point that most climbers are making re: it being a problem.
The challenge is that when you are on a climb, even a slab that is not so steep, it seems a hell of a lot steeper to you than to people looking on the ground. So should the picture represent the psychological view of the person on the climb, or the more mundane view of the person on the ground? Note El Cap is a special case because even the "mundane" parts are far from mundane except for a small minority of climbers (and even among these elites, the mundane-ness they express may be the clothing they wear to garner peer acceptance rather than their natural inner feelings while on the rock).
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 22, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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The Stonemasters were unique because they helped spawn a community wide stoke for adventure not see before or since. It is probably true that said stoke rippled out from a core group like so many seismic waves, but everyone touced by the energy added some of their own so the movement was very much a group effort shared by all. That was the thing--everyone with a pair of shoes was invited to participate because back then we were all on the A Train. People like Roy (Tarbuster) say they were not core Stonemasters but thatīs news to me. Once folks started to individualize the Stonemasters as their own gig, the gig was basically over.
Nobody owned it. Everyone owned it.
JL
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