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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Dec 21, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
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Barbarian,, your post is the exact reason this Law was passed. everyone to worried about boobs and such to notice your rights slipping away in very real leaps..
Ron, I can assure you that I am well aware of every attempt to divest me of my rights. I have read (and regularly re-read) the Constitution, and swore an oath the support and defend the same.
I believe the definition of gun control is "hitting what is in your sights" and have demonstrated the ability to do so very consistently with a rather large variety of weapons (.22 through 4.2") and distances.
All I was saying is that, after handing both somewhat extensively, I still prefer boobs to guns.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 21, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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I think more about "TOE", than boobs...
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 21, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
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Most law enforcement experts say that the presence of guns leads to a larger number of accidents, injuries, homcides, etc. and that by bearing arms and having them in your home, your risks are increased 2-3 fold, as compared to those who do not own guns.
There are incidents where having a weapon for self defense has prevented or deterred a crime and protected the homeowner, but they are highly outnumbered by incidents where people have been wounded or murdered by their own weapons.
It is always inpiring to hear of some 80 year old lady pointing a shotgun at a burglar. The fact is, if it is a young man with street smarts, 9 time out of 10, he will best the old lady.
Just the other day, an FBI expert was saying that if a private citizen tries to intervene and stop a mass shooting, the most likely result is a larger number of casualties, not fewer.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 21, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
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Aspendougy, sources? Or just "everybody knows,..."
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 21, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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Bruce it is a fair question but they just don't have enough black helicopters and I think you would be surprised at the number of people who would decide they are not sheep.
Try asking me again when the Patriot Act is repealed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 21, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
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Funny. You are talking about civil war because of attempted confiscation while I am talking about what we are becoming.
Ironically we have a too powerful federal government thanks to the last Civil War.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 21, 2012 - 10:38pm PT
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I already answered Bruce. Not going to consider agreeing to until the PA is repealed.
Right now I'm watching for anonymous trolls who flame Werner, locker and myself and use naive euphemisms like "insightful summary".
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 21, 2012 - 10:41pm PT
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The Brady Center has a pretty insightful summary of legal history regarding the Second Amendment.
The militia phrasing was generally well established to mean analogues to the National Guard, until relatively recently. Now, ironically, they are hopeful that the last Supreme Court decision actually left the door open for more, and more effective restrictions, since the unrestricted right to own every possible weapon is definitely not accepted law.
I love Charlton waving that musket over his head - reminds me a couple days ago on npr, the Rev. Richard Land, of the Southern Baptist Convention said something remarkable - I "Do not want just target handguns and shotguns... the Second Amendment did not make that restriction"
Remarkable, as those weapons had not been invented when the Constitution was written.
This Borkian concept of Original Intent is revealed as a logical absurdity, in effect demanding that unless the Founding Fathers had gone into the Future, seen every possible new manner of weapon, then specifically spelled it out in the words of the Constitution, it must be allowed.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 21, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Dec 22, 2012 - 12:43am PT
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Yeah Toker, he's full of sh#t. You're all full of sh#t.
Where do you all get your information? From some news show, an online news site, newspapers, magazines, radio? It's all bullsh#t... All of it!
Back in 1950 there were 50+ corporations that owned all news media in the United States. Today there are six. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourselves. Sure, some of them had agendas but there was always another to call bullshit and when they did, someone lost their job. News was reported for the sake of news. There was no skewing facts, over editing, pushing agendas, pandering to politicians or corporations, creating mass hysteria. Everything's a disaster, everyone's out to destroy the world, all Republicans are rednecks, stupid gun toting over weight white bread hillbillies and every Democrat is a tree hugging, faggot, socialist, hippie. It's hysteria, they're not in the business of giving the facts, they're in the entertainment business.
You have six corporations feeding you all this bullshit and they all have agendas. With a country so polarized it's either one side or the other. Nobody's interested in giving fair non partisan news, it's all a power struggle. If we push this cause, then we'll get that, if we get that, then we can push for this, it's all a ruse. These are corporations interested in corporate profit not journalists seeking some sort of truth, they don't give a damn about you and yours.
They know that the only thing you people know is what you get on TV, or what you read on their online sites like Dem Underground, Huffington Post, Fox.com, John Stewart or Rush Limbaugh. Nobody has time to fact check, they just listen to the station that best tells them what they want to hear. We live in a time with an entire generation who don't know anything about anything that didn't come from TV. Right now there are tens of millions of people being fed some bullshit half truth, no truth, steering them in the direction they want to go. These news corporations are the gospel for the overwhelming majority. They have the abilities to make or break politicians, presidents, destroy countries, religions, laws, demonize, shelter and slander anything they want. They control the most awesome propaganda force in the whole world. These six corporations who are in bed with every godless politician, corporation, special interest group or lobbyist whore in the whole fukkin world. These are six of the biggest corporations in the entire world and holy sh#t if that doesn't scare the hell out of you. Because when a large corporation knows they own everything you see and hear then who knows what bullshit will be passed off as fact.
Everybody's polarized on these gun issues like damn near everything else in this country, holy sh#t there's no middle ground. Now why do you think that is? Is it because one side is so self righteously superior in their way of thinking, that they are more enlightened then their counterparts who also consist of doctors, lawyers, physicists, plumbers, engineers, artists and musicians. So enlightened and conceded that they can only naturally hold the moral high ground? Or are they just as hypnotized by their media source as their antonym and are caught up taking the sh#t these networks spew as the truth?
News in America as well as around the world today isn't the truth. They're not interested in giving the truth, the truth is boring, it's normal, you can't sell it, it doesn't maximize profits, or promote your agendas.
If you want the truth, you need to look into yourselves, look to your neighbors, your gods, ponder your own thoughts, don't believe the stories, statistics and bullshit facts these six corporations try and sell as the truth. They lie, they'll tell you whatever you want to hear, like Obama hates America, the NRA only wants to sell more guns for their personal profit, Democrats want to weaken the country and expand welfare so they can buy votes, Bush bought his election, guns are evil and without them the country would be safer, guns everywhere would make everyone safer, they're to blame, he's to blame, you're to blame, why didn't they do more, we could do better only if, Democrats are brainwashed, Republicans are brainwashed... It's all a delusion, they'll tell you any sh#t you want to hear.
Look around you, everyone is plugged in. You sit and watch this sh#t day after day. You're beginning to believe these lies, you hear what you want to hear day after day and you start to fall for this sh#t. Every network is giving more or less the same story ,throwing in something insignificant you don't agree with just to hold your attention, but don't worry, their will be more on that at 11:00, make sure to tune in. One network agreeing with another, telling the same stories any opposition to their delusional status quo, alienated, chastised, slandered and discredited. You prefer to believe what you prefer to be true and they know this. No matter what color you are, creed or age, they don't care, they're all you know... They're all you ever can know. What else is there?...
There's the opposition! Oh, but they're wrong. They're evil American hating communists, socialists, halfwits, liars and profiteers. You buy into this sh#t because it's all you have to buy. You don't even have an original thought anymore, you're believing that the news networks are reality. Everything's going down the tubes, the whole world is in imminent danger, we're all going to start killing each other, we must make more laws, all our freedom is lost, government can protect us, government only wants to control us.
It's all an illusion... all of it, none of this bullshit is real. You're not in imminent danger if people are allowed to have "assault" rifles. Most of you can't even tell anyone what an "assault" rifle is. The government and the whore anti gun politicians sure as hell can't. And you're not going to loose all your freedom and in danger of a government takeover if you have limited access to the latest and greatest in lethality. So what if you gotta take a test to prove competency? Take the fukkin test and shut them the hell up. And if the government does try to take over, trust me, there will be plenty of the latest and greatest killing machines laying all around for you to use. You can't fault someone for wanting to keep their freedoms we've enjoyed since the dawn of the nation, no matter what reasons they have personally for wanting to do so. And you can't fault someone for being a bit paranoid that you can pump out 900 rounds a minute from an M4 with a 100 rd barrel clip you just bought at a gun show. Every gun owner knows and says you should be competent and responsible with your guns. Whats wrong with taking a test to prove your competency or showing responsibility by locking up your guns, keeping them away from children, gang bangers or mental fukk tards? And whats wrong with someone who's competent and responsible having these things so long as they remain competent and responsible? Are you really afraid a responsible socker mom or dad is going to snap and go postal at your place of work?
This is part of the illusion, there is no justifiable reason to panic and be afraid on either part. You're just fed this bullshit by an agenda. Look at the reality, there is a middle ground, a common solution where both sides give up little and in turn gain everything they really want. That's the real America, that's the real truth. These media stations are the illusion, they're the fake America, they don't want to give up their power by telling you the truth.
Go outside, get involved with your neighbors, look inside yourselves and forget the propaganda and hysteria. Their is no reason for real fear. Quit getting into moot arguments of spun half truths and bias propaganda. There will always be the extremist idiots that want to drag you into a never ending cyclone. Ignore them, because arguing with idiots only makes you what???
It's time we find that common ground, because if we don't... Then you'll really have something to fear.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 22, 2012 - 11:31am PT
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Salamanizer, this is great stuff -
I bet it would make a fantastic movie, and if they could get a real good actor to play you, like maybe Peter Finch, wow!
Is there an echo in here?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 22, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
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You guys don't even READ the part about middle ground? Compromise? Screening?
Sheesh!
Good stuff Salamanizer
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 22, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
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We started talking about reasonable compromise and the nutters went into circle the wagons and brandisnh the weapons mode. Can't compromise with the uncompromising.
All glory to the gun and worship to the bullet.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 22, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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Thank you Salamander... or whatever..
I find myself just as breathless when trying to get people to stop and think.
I'm really starting to believe most people just can't. They see, they listen to "options" proposed by others, and they react. That's it. It doesn't matter how short-sighted or stupid the proposal is. They can't think for themselves so they react on fear.
Critical thinking. A thing of the past.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 24, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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I just saw a clip from David Gregory's interview with LaPierre on MTP.
Gregory is holding up a 30 round AR clip as a prop.
Thing is; they are already illegal in NYC.
WTF is HE doing with it if he wants it banned in the rest of the country!
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Dec 24, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
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Maybe he is speaking for the rest of the country. Duh
Such quibbling. Just shows how easy they are to posses, even in states that ban them.
Better not make a movie in CA that depicts high capacity magazines.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 24, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
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I knew a guy who owned a company that provided movies with prop ordnance.
He had 3 semi trailers loaded with $10M in guns and such (and that was in the '90s, stuff has doubled in value).
It was a very complicated but lucrative business. He had several people just to handle licenses and permits. Then he had a crew that cooked up the blanks specifically for altitude and humidity so that it would "time" for the shutter speed.
A single MP5 could earn $500/day plus a dollar a round!
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Dec 24, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
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Buying an AR15 on Wednesday... And 3,000 rounds of ammo for it.
Does that scare you?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 24, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
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I agree with Sal"s diatribe to an extent, although i think he is slightly wrong on a several points:one faction or another of our politicians are always in a symbiotic relationship with the six corporations he mentions. Second, it is not 100% complete bullsh#t-they mix in just enough twisted and highly spun truth to make their so called news just barely believable to their target audiences.Third, it is the people who identify themselves as liberal who launch the most ignorant and scurilous of personal attacks against others who they identify as opposition.
And no ghoulie i don,t fear you with the AR-15
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 24, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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Actually Ghoul I fear for your wallet.
You missed the boat. According to Jody the S&W AR that I bought last month for $830 now goes for $2700 on gunbroker.com
Good luck on finding ammo too.
And now POS Wolf .223 is going for $600/ 1000rd case
I'm thinking of selling my Colt Match Target since I can get 3X for it.
I heard of a guy buying an AR with NO MAGS AT ALL for $1800
(pretty steep for a single shot rifle,..)
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