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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
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This was the plan for Hurricane Irene last year:
When it rains, the guard stands under a green nylon tent that’s used for wreath-laying ceremonies to shield him from the inclement weather. As the winds start to pick up Saturday afternoon and into Sunday, he will then, if necessary, move into what’s known as the “Memorial Display Room,” essentially a marble enclosure that holds plaques and other honoraria dedicated to the unknown soldiers. From there, the guard will have “a continual line of sight on the tomb,” Miller said.
For Hurricane Sandy:
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/us/article/Old-Guard-stays-at-Tomb-of-Unknowns-in-superstorm-3991057.php
A photo that went viral on social media of three soldiers from the Army's Third U.S. Infantry Regiment, known as The Old Guard, keeping watch over the tomb was actually taken during a September rainstorm. The Army became aware of the photo and said on its Twitter account and to media that it was from September.
The Army handed out a photo that was taken Monday morning before Arlington National Cemetery closed because of the storm. Afterward, when morning funerals were completed, the Old Guard soldiers were still on duty but had moved into an enclosure covered by a green awning known as "the box," about 20 feet away from the tomb, according to regiment spokesman Maj. John Miller.
You got that? They used the green tent ("the box") to ride out the hurricane just like I said.
That picture the OP posted is from a RAINSTORM that happened LAST MONTH.
And Chief Petty Skirt is talking out of his ass again.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Oct 30, 2012 - 05:47pm PT
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Is it just bullshit propaganda to convince ignorant youth to give up their lives?
often wondered about that. I've known several kids who join the army so they can earn money to go to school. They buy into this idea that they are protecting us from the bad guys even though they're half way around the world.
we've got troops stationed around the world. didn't protect us on 9/11
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 30, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
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Chiefs run the navy, just ask one of them.
You are a classic Chief, even though I was a jarhead I dealt with plenty of your type(in the Navy and Marine Corp), scream and yell first, ask questions later.
Trivia - The Marine Corps is a department in the Navy, the mens department, could not resist
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
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John, it's not about that, I understand. It is simply the thing to do to answer an up-front question. If you felt that you didn't have to, you could have simply given the Chief his answer or said Nonya and I wouldn't have mentioned it.
I, having been on several searches and a couple of rescues, have assisted with success in hauling unfortunate fellow climbers off the cliffs in YV. There did not seem to be anything endangering myself, but I was available and willing. Any time you venture onto fourth class terrain, and sometimes even on third class, you are in a potentially hazardous place, like the second a grunt stepped onto the tarmac in Saigon.
It happens that I enlisted in the Navy, but that's my business, in answer to your question.
Above all, let me tell you that you may be right and I may be crazy? You are a sane individual and I have no problems. :O)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
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Marching one hour tours in a storm doesn't put those boys off much.
You can see the wall of the Pentagon that was hit from there. Even though it was a nice day, those were probably more difficult tours to march. Just sayin'.
I love it up there. Probably went to the Tomb more than anywhere else during my years in DC.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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THe "Old Guard" was my first choice when I was choosing my duty assignment. I was, however, too short (by .5"). My thinking back then was that it would be an honor to represent and respect those who gave everything. I still believe that to be true.
I stood guard over many a motor pool in full on blizzard conditions. I would count it an honor and a priviledge, even today, to take a single shift at the tomb. Many here would disagree, and that is your right....guaranteed by those who gave all.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
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Soldiers parading in dress uniform look very dignified.....some might interpert this as personifying honor and dignity. The individual soldiers may be paradigm examples of honor and dignity, who knows?
Honor and dignity, or the lack thereof, are personified by an individuals actions each and every day. Honor and dignity personified should be determined by an individual's behavior in the present. The best predictor, however, of present and future behavior is past behavior.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:31pm PT
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hope of what might be
is always sweeter
than acceptace of what is.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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Yes...but only acceptance can lead to true peace.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
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I was, however, too short (by .5").
They have a rule against "short" people? What is their cut off?
If you're not too short to fight and die for your country, your country shouldn't call you too short to be you shouldn't be too short to be a Tomb Guard.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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The minmum height requirement was 5'10". I was 5' 9 1/2". My understanding was that the height requirement was to maintain the uniformity of appearance while performing ceremonial duties.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
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^^^ +1 acceptance -> true peace
I'm in the midst of this life lesson and it's making a lot more space for joy and passion in my life.
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crasic
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
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If you're not too short to fight and die for your country, your country shouldn't call you too short to be you shouldn't be too short to be a Tomb Guard.
Its a ceremonial post, they have height requirements for things like this in every military in the world.
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John M
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:04pm PT
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What I understand is that to be in the honor guard you must volunteer. What I don't believe is that once you volunteer, then you can choose when you stand guard. So if you refuse to stand guard because it might be too dangerous, then there are consequences. That is no different then what happens once you volunteer to join the military. Once you join you don't get to freely decide whether you will go into combat or not. There are consequences if you refuse a lawful order.
This is why I believe that it is everyone's duty to see to it that we don't send our troops into harms way without good cause.
Guarding a tomb in a cemetery that is closed to the public during a severe storm is in my opinion unwise. I didn't know about the concrete shelter that is available to them. If they were allowed to stand guard in that shelter during the worst of this storm, then I would have no problem with them being out there. What I objected to was the picture that seemed to show them standing out there during the storm and implied that no matter how bad things got, they would be outside. That would be just silly in my opinion.
The guard shows respect for an unidentified fallen soldier. Someone who otherwise would not get respect because they could not be identified. The fallen soldier is symbolic of all those lost and unidentified and thus stands for our respect for all those who have fallen in service to our country. I understand that and respect it. But risking ones life to show that respect is in my opinion out of bounds to good sense.
.....
Mouse, I didn't answer the Chief because I didn't feel it was germane to the conversation, and it is a tactic used by him to not address the argument, and rather turn it away into something else entirely. I have grown tired of the argument that one can never have an opinion about the military unless one has served. If that were the case then neither Romney or Obama should have an opinion.
Why didn't you or the Chief address my question of what you tell the family if someone had died while guarding that tomb?
I do appreciate that for the most part there are intelligent people in the military. My grandfather, my father, most of my uncles and my brother all served. They are all intelligent people for the most part. I simply objected to the notion that it was somehow honorable to risk ones life to guard a tomb. To guard the nation.. yes. It is honorable to risk ones life to secure the nation and I honor the Chief for that. But risking ones life to guard a tomb? Nope.. even if it is voluntary.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
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Nutjob....you pose interesting questions. It's not by accident that the military ardently recruits 18 year olds. Basic training, and all other military training, heavily emphasizes absolute obedience to orders. Anything less would lead to chaos in any military operation. Young men and women are much easier to mold into someone who obeys a superior without question.
It's an open question whenever some heroic action has occurred as to what the persons real motives were.
Service in the military also creates a high degree of comraderie that is a very formative component in a persons behavior. No one wants to let down their group. This often leads to heroic behavior but can also, in rare cases, lead to horrific abuses.
My service was good for me, I was in an interesting group with highly intelligent men and I matured greatly. Nothing wrong with learning discipline.....but anything, carried to an extreme, can have damaging effects.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
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true peace is synonymous
with hope;
both are fictional and emotionally mundane;
though it be horizon that
shant be circumcised;
let that glee reinvent thee.
mary needs a proper fuking.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:13pm PT
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I don't think anybody throws themselves on a grenade just because his gunny
rode him hard and put him up wet. It is a much higher motive to which Jim alludes.
And a propos of earlier posts I noted that the captain of the Bounty was the
last off of his ship.
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John M
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
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I tell them the exact same thing I told the wives and parents of the 16 very close Shipmates I help bury....
That they gave their lives HONORABLY and SELFLESSLY while performing their duties.
Regardless what they may have been.
As a citizen, its part of my duty to make certain to the best of my ability that the lives of our soldiers aren't wasted heedlessly.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2012 - 08:21pm PT
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Were you ever in the service Reilly, were you ever in combat? I am merely saying that in the heat of action, with the training one receives, in the company of his comrades, heroic actions are quite commonplace. They should be viewed as heroic actions whatever the internal motivations were.
Question...do the same people behave in the same way 20 years later in a civilian setting?
We are all human and are behavior can run the gauntlet of possibilities as the case may be.
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