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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I never could afford healthcare and luckily have good genetics but now that i have healthcare insurance thru my employer , the doctor always tries to sell me on more and more tests and instead of buying an over the counter tube of anti-itch cream for 12 bucks , i get an 85 dollar one from the pharmacy....Our system is ridden with waste and i think it is outrageous that government workers are insured by the tax payers but millions of tax payers can't afford health insurance...
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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in addition to Locker's comment, damn few people know that part of your healthcare monthly premium is paid by your insurer directly to the emergency rooms to help pay for those unpaid bills left by those who show up without health insurance
Not quite... But hospitals get huge subsidy checks (millions of dollars) from Medicare/Medicaid at the end of the year, based on the number of indigent and Medicare/Medicaid patients that they see over the course of the year. And those subsidies are not only for uncompensated emergency care, but for uncompensated outpatient and inpatient care as well.
BTW, where does Medicare/Medicaid get all of that subsidy money?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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BTW, where does Medicare/Medicaid get all of that subsidy money?
Medicare money since 1965 is funded through with holding from both employer and employee directly, and Medicaid is funded 100% from the Federal government out of the general fund, and from the States through their citizen's income tax payments.
And yes, every private for profit health insurance company pays, as part of their state regulation, an annual "fee" to the hospitals and emergency rooms directly to help pay for those people who Federal law requires to be treated and do not have their own insurance.
And the money from those fees come directly from the monthly health insurance payments from people like you and I who have insurance with that company.
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sempervirens
climber
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Could US businesses compete more effectively if health care was covered by a single payer system funded by taxes? Small and large businesses are affected by health care costs. Isn't health care one of the highest costs to the big3 automakers?
Health care is a huge part of our economy, but would be it a smaller part of the economy if we had a single payer system with price controls? I think it would be.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Semper, you are correct
The math is simple, single payer Medicare has
overhead costs of about 2%, private plans keep
as much as 50% to pay out in profits
For example, the CEO of United Healthcare took
home over 50 million last year
Sickening
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Thanks Norton, I didn't know that
BTW, where does Medicare/Medicaid get all of that subsidy money?
Rhetorical question for those who don't think that they're already paying for anyone else's healthcare.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Not quite... But hospitals get huge subsidy checks (millions of dollars) from Medicare/Medicaid at the end of the year, based on the number of indigent and Medicare/Medicaid patients that they see over the course of the year. And those subsidies are not only for uncompensated emergency care, but for uncompensated outpatient and inpatient care as well.
Many hospitals are allowed to be a tax exempt business for the free care they provide. A local hospital in SD professed 27 million in profit last year while maintaining it's tax free exemption. To an extent they need freeloading patients to aid in their exemption status. It is also a benefit for them to pay out more to their Administrator's, staff and stockholders (themselves) thus reducing their profits they have to report in a year.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Rhetorical question for those who don't think that they're already paying for anyone else's healthcare.
exactly, and I am sure you meant we are all paying for those "without" healthcare also
It is somewhat like the motorcycle helmet law, in that a number of riders scream about their "right" to ride without a helmet and how they want to just be free free free.
The problem is that when their head meets the asphalt if death does not come instantly, we taxpayers can then be paying for lifetime of high cost nursing home care.
And, a number of health insurance companies are so sick of it that they are starting to write into their policies that they will not pay for anything if the rider was not wearing a helmet.
And make no mistake, this same mind set of being "free" is often also apparent when the motorcyclist decides to not pay for a healthcare policy for themselves.
And then once again, we all pay for his healthcare in the nursing home in the form of taxes, and increases in our own monthly premiums.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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OK. I just had knee surgery I will post a few bills here. It was a 90 minute surgery. Three days inpatient.
Hospital:
$62,550.69
The hospital had a "provider writeoff: of $45,950.69 My part of it wasn't too much.
The Surgeon billed: $2775.50. The provider write off was 1001.29.
Haven't gotten all the bills back.
Someone explain this to me. If you don't have an insurance provider, do they bill you the full amount, (62 grand)for the hospital?
I won't even go into fighting with the insurance company over a 3 grand CT scan that took a wopping 5 minutes...3 grand. Insurance paid 400 bucks finally and it was settled.
One of my old climbing buddies got tired of OK and moved half of his practice to Canmore, AB, so he could climb and ski. Now this guy wasn't for govt run healthcare.
He prefers the canadian system big time. I was shocked. He is a specialist, and said it takes about the same wait as it would down here. Took me six weeks to get in with the knee surgeon. He said the pay was good and he didn't have to fight insurance companies, which takes a whole staff. He also liked not seeing patients go broke.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Someone explain this to me. If you don't have an insurance provider, do they bill you the full amount, (62 grand)for the hospital?
yes, they bill you the full amount
and the reason is because IF you did have insurance, then your healthcare insurance company would have already in advance settled on a "contract" price with both the hospital and the surgeon for what they will pay
this is really one of the big advantages of having insurance compared to not
however, those high fees for the uninsured become a nightmare of "negotiation", and often result in the uninsured filing for personal bankruptcy
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oh man. That is just WRONG. If I didn't have insurance I would have to sell a rent house.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The Canadian Medical Association (CMA) says Canada's health care system is failing to meet the needs of Canadians and is in urgent need of reform.
According to a report titled "Health Care Transformation in Canada: Change that Works, Care that Lasts" that was just released by the CMA, Canada's health care is in serious trouble.
The report states that Canadians are not receiving the value they deserve from the health care system, ranking last in 30 countries surveyed in terms of value for money spent.
The Canadian Medical Association says Canadians are "increasingly concerned about the lack of timely access to see their family physician,the long wait times for diagnostic testing, a widespread lack of access to specialists and specialized treatment and the compromised quality of care in overburdened emergency rooms."
The report states that the biggest factor in long wait times for health care is the lack of physicians as Canada's physician supply relative to the population is far below average.
Since Canadian teaching institutions do not produce enough physicians to meet demands, Canada cannot expect to make up the difference without new sources of physicians.
Lack of access to prescription drugs is also an area of concern.
Prescription drugs represent the second largest category in health care expenditures but only 50 percent of drug treatments costs are covered by health care. According to the CMA, the situation is "catastrophic."
Not so fast.
The report also says:
Medicare has enjoyed the resounding support of Canadians for nearly half a century. But new times
bring new challenges to the health care system and so it has been forced from time to time to adapt
and evolve. This document is predicated on the belief of the CMA that new demands for adaptation
must be addressed starting now, and in a manner consistent with the spirit and principles that have
guided Medicare from the beginning.
hardly the condemnation that you describe. It goes on to say:
Canadians
wait too long for care. Care providers feel overworked and discouraged. There are insufficient
mechanisms to monitor system performance. Technical support needs modernizing.
Wait a minute! Those are the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS that we have in the US, under the "miracle of the marketplace" insurance system. The one thing that is on the US list, NOT on the Canadian list, is the HUGE problem with all the people not covered.
The report says Canada is 30th out of 30 countries in value.
Not what this reference they have says:
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/HCP/Details/Health.aspx
"Canada’s middle-of-the-road ranking overall—a solid “B”—would surprise most Canadians who are immensely proud of their health care system. Canadians have universal access to health care services, highly skilled and committed health care professionals, and internationally recognized health care and research institutions."
But this graph shows it best:
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Sep 10, 2012 - 12:02am PT
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Who wrote the Affordable Care Act? Obama? Lobbyists? I believe it was written by lobbyists, and I doubt they were lobbying for a universal single-payer system. Suspicious? I am.
It was written conceptually by a group of health care policy experts, who have spent their careers in this sort of thing. One of the leaders was Dr Ezekiel Emanuel Founding director of Ethics at the National Institue of Health, now at Penn.
In this video, he describes some of the health care abuses that will be addressed in the ACA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8cCFnKZCA&feature=related
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2012 - 12:25am PT
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Norton writes:
"The problem is that when their head meets the asphalt if death does not come instantly, we taxpayers can then be paying for lifetime of high cost nursing home care."
No.
The problem is taxpayers being forced to cover the tab. Individuals exercising their liberty isn't a problem, as long as they only damage themselves.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:10am PT
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So what do we do with them Chaz?
[edit]
He's brought into the ER as a Code. We don't know anything about him; we resuscitate him. We send him up to ICU, and eventually he is breathing on his own, he's paralyzed and brain damaged, but he ain't gonna die unless you don't feed him through his tube, or you just put him out in a field somewhere.
What do we do with this freedom lover Chaz?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:15am PT
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If you want love and compassion, don't look to the government. Government is force and coercion - and nothing else.
Maybe the church has your answer. Look into that.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:24am PT
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If church isn't your bag - and you still want to help - look into the service organizations, such as the United Way, the Lions Club, the Shriners, etc.
They're much more effective than the government, and they don't have to steal and intimidate with threat of force to accomplish anything.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:26am PT
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I am not talking about love and compassion Chaz.
I'm talking about being a part of a society and a civilization.
We just kick 'em to the curb?
[edit]
Chaz, it is patently obvious that you have ABSOLUTELY no idea of what you are talking about.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:28am PT
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Read my post right above yours.
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:30am PT
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So the ambulance should take them to church?
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