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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 10, 2012 - 08:38pm PT
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Going from gym to sport to trad is a logical but the problem is that people want to progress too quickly.
They've forgotten the directions to Carnegie Hall.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 10, 2012 - 08:47pm PT
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Those who already participate in other natural outdoor activities (hiking, cross country skiing, backcountry skiing, mountaineering, even downhill skiing and mountain biking) may be more likely to make the transition from plastic pulling to real climbing.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 10, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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I hear people saying that intimidation was a factor when it came to getting into trad climbing. That's the problem with labels....before the advent of "sport climbing" and the unfortunate label "trad" being affixed to what had been merely referred to as "climbing," intimidation was general (is climbing intimidating) and not specific (is a type of climbing intimidating). If you weren't intimidated by climbing you entered the sport and developed a certain profiency as a climber. Now you can be a "climber" who only feels comfortable with certain aspects of climbing- eg sport but not trad. I am not going to include indoor climbing because it simply isn't climbing.
Yeah, BITD some people only rock climbed and didn't ice or alpine climb, but there wasn't the extreme segmentation there is today. It's okay, it is what it is. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that added segmentation has allowed more people to begin climbing as an activity because they could find a "type" of climbing that fit their comfort zone. You really can't expect all of these people to embrace climbing....oops I mean't to say TRAD.
So we have more "climbers" but a smaller percentage of generalists or all rounders or whatever you wan't to call them. This is not a complaint, just an observation.......you do whatever trips your trigger.
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Sonic
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 10, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Ill have to say that my first climbing experience was in a bouldering gym. I also started working at my college's outdoor program as a guide. One of my buddies asked me if I wanted to go to Yosemite to climb and of course I said yes!!!!
The next weekend he had dragged me up royal arches and I was hooked on trad and yosemite.
I have only recently resorted to sport climbing because my current work situation has place me in orlando, fl and there is literally nothing here but climbing gyms. So I resort to clipping bolts. Almost didnt pass the lead test because I didnt want to take the required fall onto my outdoor rope. Why fall when "a climber should not fall!" Seemed silly to me, but I went through with it and purposely jumped off the wall to show that i knew the proper way to fall.
Luckily my gf is in colorado so Ill be back there next weekends and hopefully the sushifest in "vedawooouchewie why am I offwidth climbing"
Trad seems way more natural and fun
If you live in Orlando or find yourself this way give me a shout
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2012 - 09:55am PT
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wow--what a response.
i'm in yosemite right now, taking ranger jesse up on his offer to meet the park ornithologist, who will get to encounter yet another bird.
an interesting point raised--most gym climbers tend to stay in the gym. probably they're rather urban people and just don't feel the draw to adventure of outdoor rock. probably, because of the gyms, there are just a lot more people climbing, and if they want to stay there, we shouldn't worry about them. but this thread is for those who want to do more, and probing to find ways for that to happen in the modern climbing scene--which is very different from when we oldtimers got into it and there was nothing but trad going on.
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WyoRockMan
Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
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Jul 11, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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It all started for me on a sunny spring day when the corn skiing was just too wet. Simon told me, “Hey, my dad used to rock climb, let’s take his rope and stuff and go climbing!” Perfect I thought, my mom had taken me climbing a few times when I was little and remembered it was FUN. Other than the off-width.
So off we went with a decades old goldline, a few steel biners and some pointy metal things. We had seen pictures of harnesses and made swamis with some tie down straps (!). We slogged away with a horrid top rope setup (a carabiner on a fixed pin for an anchor) and a trusty body belay. We were getting ready to set up for our first carabiner brake rappel when, thankfully, a couple of crusty old farts grabbed us by the short hairs and stopped the non-sense before it progressed any further. We had a chat (or lecture depending on the perspective) and walked away with a short list of required gear and the promise of a lesson should we proceed. Using our lunch money we slowly acquired the requisite harness, shoes, a used but “real” rope, we even splurged on a locking carabiner each. Sure enough, the crusty old farts did give us some lessons by way of teaching us how to belay, place gear (by this time we had a couple of nuts and some hexes) and generally not kill ourselves. Over the next couple of years we traveled to every available piece of stone and choss in SW Montana. Other than the occasional sport route and bouldering I’ve never really strayed from trad climbing. The lack of diversity probably has limited my "top grade" ability, but I'm not genetically built to be a 5.12 climber anyway. I generally could care less about numbers, other than the number of days climbing.
The lifelong lesson I’ve really taken away from this is not being shy about helping out the “kids” when I see them at the crag, especially if they are being unsafe. Sometimes they don’t like hearing it from some crusty old fart, but thems the breaks.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 11, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
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Trad seems way more natural and fun
No, modern trad climbing (climber armed with super sticky rubber shoes, a quiver of camming devices that look like something NASA may have developed, super light hi-tec ropes that take the sting out of falling and weigh almost nothing) is not particularly "natural," at least not any more so than mountain biking or alpine skiing or golf etc.
Soling without modern shoes would be "natural," -- how many people do that?
And Donini should consider consulting a dictionary before he weights in on what is climbing. Below is from m-w.com. As can been seen, the word "climb" certainly refers to movement involving man made structures--it is physical motion, not the medium being climbed.
Definition of CLIMB
intransitive verb
1
a : to go upward with gradual or continuous progress : rise, ascend <watching the smoke climb>
b : to increase gradually <prices are continuing to climb>
c : to slope upward <a climbing path>
2
a : to go upward or raise oneself especially by grasping or clutching with the hands <climbed aboard the train>
b of a plant : to ascend in growth (as by twining)
3
: to go about or down usually by grasping or holding with the hands <climb down the ladder>
4
: to get into or out of clothing usually with some haste or effort <the firefighters climbed into their clothes>
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brainbucket
climber
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Jul 11, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
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My progression was from toproping and bouldering in the gym to toproping outdoors, to leading multipitch trad outdoors, to ice climbing, to alpine climbing, and now I'll even sport climb on occasion. I prefer the longer mixed routes on mountains. I love a nice long, beautiful approach and a remote route.
Don't hold anything against the gym rats. Climbing indoors, IMO, is a great a worthwhile activity in and of itself. Alot of them are amazing at what they do.
It is funny sometimes to discover how little of what they know about he real world of climbing. When I returned from leading a 29 pitch 5.8 alpine route at altitude, a gym climber said to me "Well, I just climbed my first five-TEN!!"
So, in my opinion, there is value and entertainment in all different types of climbing, even the gyms. I've never seen a beautiful girl in yoga pants on a waterfall ice route.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Jul 11, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
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For me it was going to Yosemite and watching the climbers. I was TERRIFIED of heights and thought they were all out of their friggin minds, but so badly wanted to try it. One year I finally bit the bullet and paid the money for the Go Climb a Rock class. Was instantly hooked.
Came home to OC and did all kinds of research about climbing. Found there was a climbing gym about 5 miles from my house. Went there several times before I ever sacked up enough to climb there. Started climbing there 3 times a week and got to know the employees and the owner. One employee was very solid sport climber, and the owner has done all kinds of climbing.
Drifted into the sport scene for a little while and found that crap is hard! (That is what i get for trying to climb with guys who warm up on .10's)
Quickly realized that by learning trad it would expand what I would be able to climb. Slowly started pieceing my rack togather. Read John Long's books and got a decent idea of how placing gear is done.
Bugged the owner of the gym until he agreed to to take me out and do a little trad.
Went out to Joshua Tree and for our first three hours we stayed on the ground and i placed every piece of gear I had over and over. He had me bounce test every placement. Then he had me build several anchors and was hyper critical of everything. Over the next few years he i go out with him and a few others who helped me learn to place gear and build anchors. Meet up with RLF who is always willng to help the old fat guy improve his skills and gain confidence.
I guess for me the gym was always a way to get stronger and a means to get outdoors. Always had the goal of learning trad or at the very least learning how to build an anchor to set up a TR.
The gym has always beena gateway to "real" climbing.
Eric
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jul 11, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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Soling without modern shoes would be "natural," -- how many people do that?
Plenty - get out more...
If you'd said "Soloing near their limit without ..." then you'd almost have a point except very few (now or 'then') people solo near their limit.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Jul 11, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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1) Top-roped once
2) Wedding gift registry at REI for gear
3) Watched youtube, had my new bride belay me, almost killed myself
4) Told someone I knew what I was doing and that I would swing leads with him on a 9 pitch 5.9 (Timex Route on The Watchtower in SEKI, first trad lead). Almost killed myself
4) Met a climber who taught me more
5) Joined a gym to get stronger at night after classes
6) Gained experience and realize my guardian anger was working overtime during 1-5
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 11, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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blah blah.....blah, blah, blah, it's the Internet, I least I check my spelling....sort of.
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Beautiful_Corn
Big Wall climber
Brooklyn Park, MD
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Jul 11, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
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My progression has gone gym-trad-aid. I started top roping at the gym at my college, found an experienced trad leader and offered to be his belay slave in exchange for knowledge. I picked up lots more knowledge by spending way too much time reading climbing forums. I am prone to high anxiety and panic attacks so my trad lead limit is many, many grades below my top rope limit. I never sport climb because there isn't much of it where I live and because overhanging terrain terrifies me when I'm free climbing. Thanks to all the big wall trip reports on this forum and elsewhere I taught myself to solo aid climb this winter. Aid climbing suits me more because I can be slow and methodical and keep my anxiety under control a lot better. I'm not kidding at all when I say that because of my free climbing anxiety I aid climb almost as quickly as I trad climb, and I'm not at all fast at aid climbing.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Jul 11, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
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"I climbed up to the top."
I asked how he liked it. "It was great!"
That's all of it, right there.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Jul 11, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
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donini sounds cranky...... don't worry so much about the upcoming birthday
:-)
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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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Jul 11, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
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I started out climbing in the mountains, then learned to trad climb, took some memorable lead falls on pitons and nuts, got more into clipping bolts, and now I only climb in the gym. Next I plan on leaving the BRC and joining the Spot.
Speaking of Jim, hope you are feeling better. Looking forward to next week's hullabaloo.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 11, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
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Total and unabashed noob here-I've only been climbing (in any sort of focused way) since February.
I started at a gym, have added sport climbing, and am looking forward to starting trad whenever I can find a weekend off that coincides with my cousin, who has the gear and experience.
I loved the gym, and still love the gym-I find it is a good place to learn fundamentals, work past psychological blocks, and it's easy to go down for an hour or two and get lots of climbs in.
I finally made it onto real rock this June (broke in at Yosemite-go big or go home, I always say), and started leading sport almost immediately-I enjoy pushing myself while climbing, and it was the obvious progression from top-roping.
The two things holding me back from diving into trad are the restraining hands of the people I climb with (definitely a good thing-I sometimes try to run before I walk when I'm passionate about something), and the financial commitment of a well stocked trad rack.
women might lean more towards the aesthetic movement and quality of the climbing.
I'm sure that there a lot of XX's who would disagree with you, but my wife (and one of her very good friends who she climbs with) wouldn't be among them. They are both slab specialists who love the delicate and graceful balancing act of climbing most of all.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 12, 2012 - 12:14am PT
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"I climbed up to the top."
I asked how he liked it. "It was great!"
That's all of it, right there.
Something else comes to me.
Getting to the top is a very specific objective. If getting to the top is your objective, you will walk back a few feet to feel what it is like to be on top.
If you climb just the first pitch of a climb, in some essential way, you are doing something different. Not to say it is more or to say it is less.
But it is different.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 16, 2012 - 08:39pm PT
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It seems the biggest problem for N00bs is finding someone to mentor them thru their first few gear leads. Keep them from making disastrous route finding decisions, critiquing gear placements and methods, pushing them a bit past their fear, but having a good assessment of where their limits really lie, ready to step up if things start to go awry,but giving them enough rope to feel the sting and learn the lessons for themselves.
The rewards for doing it though are deep, beyond the beaming grins (and free beer and food)
If you've been around the block a few times don't be selfish about offering to mentor. You are only short changing yourself.
Sunday, Angels Fright at Tahquitz.
Ryuichi and Hiyroshi swung leads. Tran got her first multipitch gear lead.
I got to tag along and just offer the occasional comment.
Good job guys!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jul 16, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
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TGT can be wise, too. Imagine that. Good on ya.
It is The Way. YMMV.
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