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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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Fatty, a 1099 pays more for some reason.
I'd have to check my books, perhaps it wasn't 28, but it was over 20 for sure.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
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The central problem with the US healthcare system is cost due to fat in the system. And that fat is primarily buried in the disjointed private insurance system . But ACA does absolutely nothing to control the cost of health care...
In theory, costs should come down but there is no guarantee. The general idea of insurance is spreading individual risk across a large pool of individuals--and now that everyone will supposedly be in the pool, costs should come down. The larger the pool the lower the costs. Naturally a public option would be better, since government provided insurance would not have the same adversarial financial interest to its policy holders that private insurance companies have.
Curt
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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Fatrad, you forgot about self-employment tax.
Your not very good at finances are you.
Only part of the self-employment tax is deductable.
So when Brandon says he pays 28%, that includes the se tax. The taxtable % is smaller so you can't go the the table and declare what his earnings are.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
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didn't we all learn something in history class along the lines of 'no taxation w/o representation'?
or am I just too far out? (which I'm totally fine with, i'd just like to know)
Yep, you're out there.
Do you vote in elections?
If you do, you participated in the process that elected representatives...."representation"
If you don't, you've given up your right to choose representation, and others choose for you. Very sad.
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beef supreme
climber
the west
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
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Yes, I did vote, I do vote- this was never a tax issue at all until the supreme court ruled it so.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
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But ACA does absolutely nothing to control the cost of health care.
Wrong. There are a number of provisions that attack the cost of health care.
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
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The central problem with the US healthcare system is cost due to fat in the system. And that fat is primarily buried in the disjointed private insurance system . But ACA does absolutely nothing to control the cost of health care. And does nothing to eliminate the dis-functional private insurance system. It simply mandates that we all participate in a dis-functional system.
+1 Yes, this seems like a problem. Any hope that this will be addressed in some way in the future?
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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My brother is a French citizen, lives in St Etienne. He's in his 40's, fell off a ladder working on his house a couple years ago and injured his shoulder. Despite much protesting and seeing more than one doctor, and having a wife working in the system, he could not even get an MRI. Now he's got a bad shoulder. Pain wakes him up at night. But he's not a pro athlete, and not worth the investment.
Too bad about your brother's shoulder, but anecdotal stories don't make a very effective case against single-payer healthcare. Are you claiming that his shoulder would be fine today, if he had just received the MRI? I'm afraid I don't follow that logic.
In addition, the entire argument that healthcare will be limited by government is a red herring. I would far prefer that the government (inefficiencies and all) control my healthcare--as opposed to having a for-profit corporation that has an adversarial financial interest to me doing the same thing.
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
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"Or my alternative is to pay the “tax” and find out what care I am eligible for when the “need” arises."
There's nothing in the ACA that limits the level of coverage you obtain, or the quality of care you are free to pay for.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
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Silver, I'm a soul proprietor.
I'm cool with my taxes.
I just want to see people healthy.
Maybe the exchange will prorate premiums based upon where you live. :)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
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Until you take out excessive tests and generous malpractice awards out of the health care equation, the costs will continue to rise.
malpractice awards have virtually no effect on the cost of medicine. shown over and over.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
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Fatrad, it all depends on whether Brandon is including his se tax in the 28%.
If he is, then he's not making what you say he is.
It's as simple as that. No huffing and puffing on your part can change simple facts.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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I made a whopping 25K last year.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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RESPECT for John Roberts. He actually did what conservatives have been saying the job of justices is; he determined the legality of the law and didn't legislate from the bench.
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Those who want to suck wealth from a straw, hoard up their booty, and then blame those who they stole from for the problems they in fact caused? You aren't part of the tribe, you are a parasite. I agree with this statement.
Curt, I agree with what you just wrote too.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what this all means, and so I am going to read this whole healthcare act today. Should be an exciting read ;-) Wish there was cliffnotes...
Don't we all like the change about pre-existing conditions (doesn't it include something along the lines of you can't be turned away from being insured because of pre-existing conditions)... that sounds like a good reform to me.
I am worried about the whole deal, though. I am glad that at least something is being done, but I have to say, I worry that it's going to put me under (as someone just eking by). And I pay taxes. And I work 2 jobs.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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You make no sense Fatrad. What you pay is what you pay. It's all supposed to benefit you, from either helping with defense or your social security.
And you can now see there is a big difference between 142K and 25K right?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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Robert's opinion, though, is based on his interpretation of whether the Mandate falls under the Commerce clause or functions as a Tax...in the end, he leaned towards the latter.
'Objectivity' in rulings rarely exists...it's always about the judge's perspective, which by definition is subjective.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
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Brandon said:
I made a whopping 25K last year.
then you likely will get a voucher, a check, to help you buy insurance
congratulations
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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ksolem:
I have been told BY DOCTORS in Britain that not only is this procedure not available there ("...I think if someone qualifies for that we send them to Sweden") but that there is no way someone in my age group would ever be made aware such a thing were an option.
You have to be careful of people, even DOCTORS, who have political agendas.
My experience in talking with colleagues from England is quite different.
Your unsophisticated view of how medicine is best practiced doesn't help, either. One view is to make all procedures available everywhere. The other, increasingly prevailent view, is to concentrate those procedures into "centers of excellence", where they do a LOT of them. Beyond question, centers that do a lot of procedures have consistently much better outcomes than places that do them occasionally.
My brother is a French citizen, lives in St Etienne. He's in his 40's, fell off a ladder working on his house a couple years ago and injured his shoulder. Despite much protesting and seeing more than one doctor, and having a wife working in the system, he could not even get an MRI. Now he's got a bad shoulder. Pain wakes him up at night. But he's not a pro athlete, and not worth the investment.
I ABSOLUTELY guarantee you that if your brother had had an MRI, his shoulder would be no better today. Nor if he had a PET scan, or even brain surgery. MRI's don't treat anything. With respect to the shoulder, there if not much an MRI reveals, that cannot be diagnosed other ways. He just had a bad outcome, which happens, and you are blaming on the lack of Capt. Kirk's transporter beam. No.
Will you have access to a top notch sports medicine ortho?
What's with the scare tactics? No one has proposed limitation of access. No one. Except you. So who is the enemy of good health care?
For all of my adult life, sometimes when money was very tight and other times when it was rolling in, I kept a high deductible health policy which covered what I need covered. This kept my rates down. Those days are done. Now I’ll have to pay for all kinds of coverages I don’t want or need, and the government will decide for me what I want to put at risk in terms of a deductible. Or my alternative is to pay the “tax” and find out what care I am eligible for when the “need” arises.
Or, you can join the ranks of those in third-world countries, which hails the system that you appear to prefer.
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