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wydra
Social climber
Utah
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Apr 28, 2006 - 03:47pm PT
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Close minded would be to assume that the more you pay a doctor the more he/she will care about their patients.
However ironic that is, that typical closed minded logic never seems to get applied to teachers.
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wydra
Social climber
Utah
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Apr 28, 2006 - 03:50pm PT
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I remeber reading somewhere that the USA has a higher infant mortality rate then Cuba. anybody else hear this?
I am sure it was just cooked up by another "typical liberal claim"
amen for talk radio. So 'logic' can prevail.
EDIT: Google was paged.
Guess this one was cooked up by those illogical liberals again.
view it all here
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 28, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
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Radio google google
Radio gag gag
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Apr 28, 2006 - 04:05pm PT
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Dcmcwilson wrote: Do you know for a fact that we have a worse system or are you just making a close minded, typical liberal response? I think we need to here from a true Canadian before anyone makes any judgement calls.
I know for a fact. Also...what with the closed minded crap. It obvious that you don't know what the word liberal means.
Liberal: #
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
#
1. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
# Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
# Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum:
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Hootervillian
climber
the Hooterville World-Guardian
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Apr 28, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
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2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
whooa whooa whooa Bob, your not speaking the language, you'll never get him there....
Hey D, gimmme and order of McLogic and....uhhhh... Supersize It!
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 28, 2006 - 04:13pm PT
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If the doctors are all payed the same, they don't care about the patients, because they are still going to be paid the same amount of money no matter how many people they are examining. But, nobody uses logic these days.
Certainly, the above statement proves YOU don't use logic.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Apr 28, 2006 - 06:15pm PT
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"TooSlow - you pay the same tax rate as the poor on your income. The first $7000 or so is pretty much tax free, that's money for cheap food, etc. basic survival stuff. Then you pay ~15% for the next chuck up to $30,000, still money you need to survive but not in total squalor. Then you pay 25-28% for the next chunk of money used for a decent standard of living. That income your paying 33%+ on is the income that is way above survival, basically luxury income. Yes you (and I) have earned that income but doesn't it make sense to pay more tax on "luxury" income? Or are you unwilling to pay for all the services that make our high incomes possible?"
This is the kind of unbelievable, moronic, socialist horse sh#t I can't even begin to tolerate. Fet, how can you possibly think like this? Are you freakin serious? You actually believe that the gub'ment and the lazy/incompetant/infirmed should get to determine how much of my income I should consider a "luxury"?!
F*#K YOU.
God damn pink donut, spineless, milquetoast, lilly-livered, granola-munchin, druid, commie bastards...
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Loom
climber
167 stinking feet above sea level : (
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Apr 28, 2006 - 06:21pm PT
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Ah, another coherent, unified position statement from The Right.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 28, 2006 - 07:15pm PT
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The dittoheads are in big trouble. Rush has been jailed. How will they know what to think now?
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d mcwilson
climber
missouri
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Apr 28, 2006 - 07:26pm PT
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Wydra,
So what does it mean that we have a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba? Any way, do you actually think we could get good information from a communist country? Also, since they have a way smaller population than the US, that would definitely affect the out come. Still it has nothing to do with rather we should pay for our own doctors or have a communist free health care for all.
I know for a fact. Also...what with the closed minded crap. It obvious that you don't know what the word liberal means.
Bob,
My bad, the definition of a liberal I should have put was,"Liberal- people so open-minded that their brains have fallen out." Not to mention you didn't answer my question, if you knew Canada was better healthcare provider. All you did was avoid the question by using the textbook definition of a liberal.
Certainly, the above statement proves YOU don't use logic
Gary,
Prove me wrong then, if you are so confident that you know so much about Canada's healthcare system. You are just avoiding the main question posed.
"Silly liberal, paychecks are for workers!"
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Loom
climber
167 stinking feet above sea level : (
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Apr 28, 2006 - 07:32pm PT
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d are you any relation to Al Broussard?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 07:39pm PT
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"Ah, another coherent, unified position statement from The Right."
Does that imply that the left has a coherent, unified position?
Good one!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Apr 28, 2006 - 07:42pm PT
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D...I said "I know for a fact". That was my anwser. Slow down and read.
Here the first FACT for you:
The USA spends a much higher percentage of its GDP on health care than do Canada, Britain and Japan - countries that provide universal health care for all.
Second Fact:
America spends about 16-per-cent of GDP to insure about 20 per-cent of it's citizens.
Britian spends about 6-per-cent of GDP to insure 100-per-cent.
Britain, Japan and Canada ALL rank higher on total health care than the US.
They also rank higher than the US in satisfaction and total care by their citizens. The last poll has showed that about 65-percent of Americans disapproved of our health care systems.
D...wrote: Competition is what gets you the best care. The more expensive the doctor the better and more credentials he is likely to have. Most people don't want a fresh out of medical school neuro-surgeon to preform brain surgery. They want a well respected, well known doctor, but it will cost.
This is bullsh#t.
Hospitals/doctors are paid for what they do, rather than how well they do it.
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MikeL
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 08:14pm PT
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Hey, Bob:
Let's not define things by simply by referring to a dictionary. There are history and philosophy behind the ideas here.
A liberal was a man who believed in liberty. Initially for the English, liberty meant freedom from constraints of the state, especially from an over-bearing executive government. Next a new school of liberalism, utilitarianism, came along that proposed that the state would free men from their misery and ignorance. This, however, created a paradox: liberalism (i) urged freedom from constraints of the state, and it (ii) urged an enlargement of the state’s power to liberate the poor from poverty.
In our country, American liberalism—at first a moniker for socialism--came to stand for an idea of human perfectibility, one that looks to an egalitarian democracy, where the state functions as a servant to the common well-being. (There were also different ideas about German and French liberalism, but none of that here.)
A conservative, on the other hand, seems to have a love of the familiar. He exhibits a preference for what has grown up over time, rather than that which is created deliberately or quickly. Conservatives react negatively to a rationalist notion that man can control the quality of men's lives (a liberal idea), and they are particularly hostile to strong social change by the state to achieve utopias (or even rights, for that matter). Conservatives tend to believe that humans change rather slowly to shifting situations; hence, they don’t believe that a few brilliant men can really engineer effective social changes. They tend to think that human affairs are complicated and unpredictable. They doubt that neither science nor government has the ability to solve man’s problems. They believe that if improvements in man’s ways are to be realized at all, they will come from elevating his moral behaviors (here you can see the religion connection). Ironically, conservatives often exhibit great love for individual men, yet detest man and his nature.
MikeL
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MikeL
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 08:20pm PT
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I forgot to say that most every politician I've heard over the past 10 years or more seem to pick and choose what part of their political philosophy they want to adhere to. From my point of view, they seem to respond to the daily fluctuations of public sentiment. This is where democracy has gotten to today.
MikeL
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Apr 28, 2006 - 08:39pm PT
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I posted this once before but it didn't get any action. Perhaps now.....
http://www.fvckthesouth.com
you have to type in the link with the correct spelling of course.
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TooSlow
Big Wall climber
Calif
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Apr 28, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
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Hello boys and girls. It seems the battle still rages. Fun, fun, fun! It has come down to this? “My hospital system (dad) is better (can beat up) than your hospital system (your dad).
“Yes, you show me your logic”. “No, you show me yours”. “I’m a liberal”, “no you’re a democrat”! “But you’re in bed with big oil and Haliburton”. “Ya, and now Rush is in jail – so take that”!
And then theirs bob d’ spouting that Cuba has the best system of all and the lowest infant mortality rate. Hey, bobby, Cuba (and Russian [and most former eastern block countries]) don’t even count babies unless they live for one year. Kind’ a skews the percentage as well as the facts – wouldn’t you say?
Here are a couple of facts that can justify themselves. No need for Hillary to comment or Rush to be available. It’s just the market at work for itself.
Hospitals in Seattle, Detroit and most other border cities actually count as part of their annual forecasted budgets cash brought in by Canadians (eh!) for services. Let’s see, does Vancouver do that. No! Opps, people not fleeing to take advantage of the great Canadian system to the north and it honest hardworking physicians.
Based on the same idea (hate to rely on that – but this one is pretty safe), people are also not headed south to Mexican (or Cuban) hospitals, except to cure cancer with witchcraft.
Hey, its pay day today. Just got my statement. Came online. Yeh, I’m online for more than just 'supertopos'. Let’s see here, the Fet thinks I am paying the same tax rate (percentage and amount I guess) as the other guys. (Hang on, let me get my calculator). Ok, today’s statement shows $17,191.98 for the first two weeks of April. It seems I lost $4,066.63 to the federalies. Arnold took $2,125 for the state. I got out of the local city tax on one of those pesky tax scams that only us rich guys can figure out. Paid another $249.29 for Medicare so wydra (the social climber from Utah) can go to the doctor for mumps and, yes ,FICA ($5,840.40) was satisfied weeks ago.
That’s about 38% (I like to round up to make it seem worse than just 37.58%). So, that’s not too bad. However, I do claim 13 dependants to drop it down for now and I still end up paying (as it should be for us evil bastards) more next April 14th. I would hate to think I am lending the government money at no interest!
I just called my sister (you know, the one that’s a CPA) and ask her what percent she just paid. Humm, only 14% total. How does she do that? I told her that I thought everyone paid about 38% - just like me. She hung up. She must have come out of a different university setting than some of you other guys.
And one final thought. I have full confidence that a new, more sustainable and more environmentally friendly source of energy is out there – and the market place will drive its conception, production and distribution. IF, IF we can keep the government and politics (lunatics) out of the middle of it.
ps, Still don’t like you ignorant liberals!
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TooSlow
Big Wall climber
Calif
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Apr 28, 2006 - 10:52pm PT
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Sawyer; I always like your post and you have a great perspective on things. After all, you have lived on both sides of the pond! You seem to be fairly in touch with reality. That was/is a compliment. I also always like Werners comments. His neutrality and great philosophy (theology to him) calm us all down at troubled times like this.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Apr 28, 2006 - 10:56pm PT
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Two-Slow-to-Read wrote: And then theirs bob d’ spouting that Cuba has the best system of all and the lowest infant mortality rate. Hey, bobby, Cuba (and Russian [and most former eastern block countries]) don’t even count babies unless they live for one year. Kind’ a skews the percentage as well as the facts – wouldn’t you say?
Way to spin...that wasn't me who wrote that. I gave you some facts which in your blissful state refused to look at.
Remember...ignorance is bliss and blind. You seem to be afficted with both of these traits.
Calm down dude...there is help out there for you.
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:05pm PT
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"The USA spends a much higher percentage of its GDP on health care than do Canada, Britain and Japan - countries that provide universal health care for all.
America spends about 16-per-cent of GDP to insure about 20 per-cent of it's citizens.
Britian spends about 6-per-cent of GDP to insure 100-per-cent."
Yes, because our care is more technologically advanced and there is a lot more OF it. I will grant you 100% that Americans are largely ignorant about health and need to start taking some responsibility for their well-being as opposed to expecting a doctor to fix it all.
However, you have to understand that in a nationalized/socialized health care system, you don't get to pick your care. Someone in the bureaucracy has to give it the thumbs up. Do you want the government practicing medicine? After Bill Frist's lame-ass attempt to diagnose Terry Schiavo by video tape (a patient completely out of his field, not to mention he is/was no longer practicing) I sure as hell don't.
Add to that that there is a significant waiting list for some vital diagnostic procedures (CAT, MRI, etc.) and I'd rather have privatized medicine.
We have an attitude problem in this country, not a problem with the system of care itself.
"Britain, Japan and Canada ALL rank higher on total health care than the US."
How do you define "total health care"? The number of people who have limited, government regulated access? If so, duh. If not, please clarify.
"They also rank higher than the US in satisfaction and total care by their citizens. The last poll has showed that about 65-percent of Americans disapproved of our health care systems."
This is because 65% of Americans or more haven't experienced a nationalized system. As mentioned, the problem in this country is attitude. We're the fattest country on the planet because everyone wants to make it everyone else's problem - specifically the doctors'. Everyone wants a pill to fix what ails them.
I'm sure that most of us as climbers are big on responsibility - after all, we climb, and it's up to us to make sure we don't die in the process. I regret to note that we are the minority - a lot of people out there want someone else to fix their problems, and as such won't take responsibility for their health by eating well, exercising, and getting adequate rest.
EDIT: Also, my hospital system can beat up your hospital system! :sticks out tongue:
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