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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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A high percentage of rattler bites involve males 14-28 and/or alcohol.
"Paging Charles Darwin"
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I don't see why snakes that old shouldn't be permitted to drink.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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A high percentage of rattler bites involve males 14-28 and/or alcohol.
You took the words right out of my mouth!
So far this spring, my family have noticed an abundance of buzztails in Starlie...like 1 every other day. Our theroy is that, since the winter of 2010/2011 was one of our heaviest on record, we earned a rodent bloom...which, of course, led to an explosive growth of rattler population, and they're still here. I mean, when you find one just ourside our backdoor, perhaps waiting for our cat (and probably the only cat in Starlite whose survived the owls, coyotes...the nesting pair of Golden Eagles up on Fat Boy Hill), or for me to sit down on the wieght training bench beneath it was lurking, I'm going to replace the golf club I take on my xc 'milks hikes with a Smith-Wesson.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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@Crimpergirl; You are SOOO lucky to have seen the snake/squirrel in a tree! Way Cool!
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I've never seen a snake in the Valley. Stumbled across a lot of friendly bears.
I've stumbled across a few snakes in Tahoe. They seemed pretty comfortable with people, and only rattled to let people know they were there. Outside of Yuba City, the only time I saw a snake coil up around people's presence was to fit in the small shady spot under a tree next to the bridge leaving the parking lot at Lover's Leap.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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A friend of mine got bit while climbing at the Cookie in '71 or '72. He was
flaming and was gunning for the ledge not knowing it was occupied and the
resident wasn't up for sharing. He slapped the ledge and got slapped back
and then went for about a 50 footer to add insult to injury. It took quite
a while for them to get him to whereever they took him. A year later he
was only able to grasp a pool cue.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"Scientific American" reports that the Southern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus helleri, might be undergoing an evolutionary change in its venom possibly by inter-breeding with the Mojave, Crotalus scutulatus scutulatus. It appears also to be expanding its range at the expense of the Red, Crotalus ruber, and the Speckled, Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus. The Southern Pacific seems to be hissing and rattling less, or biting first, as this is a strategy that will bring it afoul of fewer shovels.
The venom appears to be undergoing a transformation to something more akin to the Mojave's hemo and neurotoxic cocktail. Some think a dormant gene that controls the neurotoxic components may becoming activated in response to increased resistance by ground squirrels to the hemotoxic elements. Then there are those like Dr Sean Bush of Loma Linda University Med Ctr who think that we are just becoming more aware of the greater variability and potency of venoms than previously.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Gavin, glad you're okay!
My BF and I encountered our first in JT 2 weeks back while on the approach to Islands in the Sky (Bird of Fire). We were on the trail on the trail about to get to the slab approach when we heard rattling from a nearby bush. Loud. At least he let us know he was there and not to pass.
We left and went elsewhere.
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zBrown
Ice climber
mercenario de merced
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[quote]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgjusUvPn0[/quote]
I agree half-heartedly or maybe 25%. I think they should have to wait till their 21 years old like everyone else. Parenthetically, this behavior may provide some clues as to just why LSD is illegal.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I have run into several in Yosemite Valley, Hetch Hetchy (there seem to be a lot there), Columbia and on Mt Diablo over the years.
The scariest was on the approach to Snake Dike with Jim Keating back around 1975 or so. You know those little headwalls that one third class. Jim and I were both mantling up onto a ledge and as we popped are heads over there it was coiled up about three feet (If that) in front of our faces. We both just let go and dropped down to the slab. Jeez to think we were just mantling with our hands at risk.
Then we were going around another way and saw one coiled up asleep near a fallen dead tree.
Back around the same time, while going to Columbia College (then Columbia Junior College) I was jogging around the PG&E ditch on campus. It was fall quarter and a lot of leaves on the path. One was stretched out across the path and I didn't see until the very last moment. I don't think I ever jumped as high or as far as I did then, right over it. They sure do know how to camouflage themselves.
Living in Cedar Ridge, with Jim, Claude, Steve, and Dieter we had a climbing partner, Hank Ward ( local lad from Sonora). When he was a teen he was getting wood from the pile. One nailed him on his finger, but he was lucky as apparently its was not an envenomed bite. His parents were not home and his brother locked him out, afraid the snake was going to go into the house.
I saw some snakes here in Ireland, but they were the human kind.
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Gavtaylor
Boulder climber
CAPAY, Ca
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I didn't know it was there, it never rattled. I reached my hand down to pick up a stick and something bit me from beneath the box.
My friends poked around under there with a pole and the snake came out from the back side. It came right back to the box after a short time, they said.
The next morning they flushed it out again to remove their food (at the request of the ranger, because they didn't want anything more to do with the box), and again, the snake returned to the box afterward. They said it was 2 feet long. It rattled for them the next day, Sunday.
The box is a good place to ambush mice that are attracted by the food. It radiates heat after dark and it's well protected. It is propped up with wooden supports which helps to create the space to hide.
I think the boxes should be put on a gravel bed to prevent anything living underneath. If gravel is difficult to bring out to the boxes, then place them on the ground and check them every year to fill in any dirt that is washed out from beneath. Maybe keep the wooden spacers but install a wire mesh to keep things from getting underneath.
14 vials / 40K of antivenin, tens of thousands of dollars in ambulance and health care, a new phobia of dark spaces. Pay your insurance premiums for sh#t like this. It could happen again, always check that bear box with a long stick or something.
My arm is still quite swollen, and my finger tightly swoll and bruised. I hope/think it will recover. Thanks again to all who helped me, I'm a lucky boy.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Carry a spare squirrel to keep them occupied.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Glad you are going to be OK.
Thanks for the warning.
But she sure is pretty and eats mice which is good.
We just had 2 deaths by hanta virus in Utah.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
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Man Gav, glad your on the rebound! And, really cool to have all the photos and the details of your epic snake bite story! This has the makings for a magazine story. Copyright your stuff right now and contact backpacker or outside magazines.This is a great story. You could get some of that fricking money back. THanks Again!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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I mentioned upthread the snake v. squirrel battle we saw hiking down from the First Flatiron on Saturday. We had the point-and-shoot and got a few photos. They aren't the best, but still. It was quite the sight!
As we hiked just past the scree, I heard a squirrel fussing like mad. I saw him in the tree totally taking on this snake. He was hopping around and apparently trying to bite the snake. The snake would rattle then strike. I'd scream and the squirrel would fly. I can't believe how fast that little rodent could move.
Can't believe we didn't see him get bit and drop dead.
Photo 1: Snake moving up first tree as squirrel attacks and bouncing all around him.
The squirrel fought valiantly. I assume he/she was protecting a nest. The snake slithered up and moved to the adjacent tree. Then slithered a bit higher disappearing into a hole (squirrel nest?).
Photo 2: The snake before he moved up and into the hole.
The squirrel was still angrily chattering when we walked away.
30 yards down the path, we run into another snake in a tree. This one was only about 5' off the ground. Ew.
No agreement on whether this one was a rattle snake or not. Experts? Still, he was effective and creeping lots of people out. I now know the secret to getting dogs put on leash...just let owners know there are several rattle snakes around!
edit: Ew.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks tons - now we'll all have nightmares featuring reptiles climbing in our windows, and stuff like that.
Other good leashing tricks include the "I saw/heard a bear" and "There's a dog just up trail that's snapping at other dogs". They could be true...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Do you know snakes well Anders? Can you ID them both (i.e., type of rattler and if second is a rattler at all)?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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No, I don't know snakes very well at all. Although I have a Norwegian cousin who's a vet, and quite the expert - he owns property in Arizona, and visits twice a year, just to look at snakes.
We have garter snakes here, and there are rattlesnakes at Skaha, toward the northern end of their range. I once saw one there that was as big around as my upper arm, and easily two metres long. It was out for an afternoon wriggle, down a gully from where we were to another cliff which was thronged with people. We stood on the edge and warned them what was coming, and they didn't believe us - and then scattered like buckshot.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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We heard the first one rattle several times. Second one - thinking he was just some ordinary snake.
Thanks for the info Toadgas. I'm a snake noob.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Crimpergirl! I agree with Toadgas, and think based on the head geometry of the second snake, it is not a rattler. I would call it a Gopher-snake in Idaho.
Vipers have a pronounced triangular head.
Here's a tiny Gopher-Snake we spotted in a Ponderosa Pine in Idaho. It was hiding from two Dachshunds, that had treed it.
Gopher-snakes eat Rattlers too!
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axlgrease
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Crimpergirl - That second one is definitely not a rattler. I think it's a
Bullsnake - a subspecies of the Gopher Snakes and a colubrid.
(When I saw the pic, I thought it was a Rat snake. We have 7 Red Rat snakes and have bred them in the past. They have a very similar head shape to the one in your pic because they're also colubrids.)
They're non-venomous constrictors, and generally feed on rodents.
Your first picture (the snake in the tree) is really cool. I'm thinking that likely isn't a rattler, either, but the same type of Bullsnake. I can't see the shape of the head very well, though, so it's hard to be sure. My wife the biologist says most rattlers aren't really big climbers, but the colubrids are. I'll bet you are right in that the snake was after the squirrel's young.
The colubrids (including Rat Snakes and Bullsnakes) rattle their tails even though they don't have a rattle. When ours are startled, they'll rattle in their aspen bedding or against the terrarium walls and it sounds just like a rattlesnake. Yours may have been rattling the tail against the tree or a branch or dry leaves to make the rattling sounds you heard.
Back on topic -
Gavtaylor, glad you got the quick help, and hope you have a quick recovery! Go YOSAR!
Edit: Just read that the Bullsnakes can also make a hissing sound that is remarkably like a rattlesnake's rattle...
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