Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
|
You came back here, didn't you?
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
|
The only thing The Believers can do to you, in an extreme case, is make you think you're going to hell - if you let them.
Uhhmmm, yeah, something like that.
I think it sorta depends on how much power you let the "believers" have...
And by the way, how much does it bother smutty/half way open minded republicans to be led by all these religious zealots anyway?
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
|
I don't normally post on political threads outside the "Republicans are always wrong" one to avoid proliferation of them, but I think paganmonkeyboy is right: the S/N ratio has gotten so low on that thread that single political issue (as opposed to personality issue) discussion gets lost in the QRN (to continue with a ham radio analogy).
I'm posting here because I think Obama did the right thing, and I frankly don't care if he did it because of his handlers or despite his handlers. Anyone who cared already knew where his administration stood. I find it refreshing that he chose to be open about his beliefs now, rather than after the election.
I know cynics will say that he did this to energize his base, or to distract from the economy, or for some other purpose that gives him personal gain. I don't care, but I don't think so. I think he was just being honest.
Just for the record, in case anyone doesn't already know, I am a Republican, and a Christian whose beliefs are orthodox (not Orthodox). I don't believe as Obama does, but in this case, I applaud his action.
John
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
|
I'm posting here because I think Obama did the right thing, and I frankly don't care if he did it because of his handlers or despite his handlers. Anyone who cared already knew where his administration stood. I find it refreshing that he chose to be open about his beliefs now, rather than after the election.
I know cynics will say that he did this to energize his base, or to distract from the economy, or for some other purpose that gives him personal gain. I don't care, but I don't think so. I think he was just being honest.
honest and no bullshit comment
thank you, John, for not letting your political bias get in the way
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
|
My new favorite republican.
If more would speak like this man, we wouldn't be in such a shytehole.
Tom Davis, Republican ex-Congressman from Virginia, said that while the GOP's opposition to gay marriage may not hurt them now, it's "not a comfortable place" for the party in the long run.
"Long term it's probably not a comfortable place to be," Davis said during a roundtable meeting with reporters Thursday when asked whether Republican opposition to gay marriage could hurt the party. "It's a generational issue."
Davis, the president of a coalition of moderate lawmakers called the Republican Main Street Partnership, declined to comment on his own views about gay marriage, but conceded that if members of his party hope to remain electable to future generations of voters, the party platform may need to change.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
|
Whether you agree or not it doesn't matter. It is what it is.
If you walk through reading the entire Good Book, The Holy Bible, you will see that GOD favors and protects those Nations who abide by his word and his Laws that he has given mankind to abide by.
And those Nations that don't, it doesn't work out for them too well.
The same happens in our personal lives.
If you abide in GOD, love GOD, worship GOD and keep his commandments, then there is love, peace, joy, harmony, protection, and favor from GOD. Go against GOD and its not going to work out ultimately for you.
Who among you is going to fight GOD and prevail?
Yet some people keep trying. Lol.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
|
Again, the point John Moosie was making was that the President's remarks might polarize conservatives lukewarm to Romney and get them to the polls to vote for him as a "lesser evil".
Liberals on the west and northeast coasts would be pro-Obama regardless. But conservatives in flyover country, having reservations about Romney, might become passionate if this becomes a "family values" mudfest.
Mr. Romney's stink of money may be a bigger liability than his religious faith. But anti Romney haranques could become second hand smoke if Republicans exploit this to get the reactive out to the polls over family values.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
|
I think a lot of us are mistaking saying something with doing something.
Obama said the right thing.
Only time will tell if he does the right thing. Or not.
|
|
Binks
climber
Uranus
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
|
Whether you agree or not it doesn't matter. It is what it is.
If you walk through reading the entire Good Book, The Holy Bible, you will see that GOD favors and protects those Nations who abide by his word and his Laws that he has given mankind to abide by.
Actually if you read the whole thing you'll see it contradicts itself multiple times and seems applicable only to tribe that has long since ceased to exist in its current form. The Old Testament is a hodgepodge of stuff and isn't even related to the New Testament.
Don't eat shellfish!
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
|
Lay thee not with the spawn of Thistle, lest thee be prickled and spurned.
For thee who does the wee nasty with Asian girls will know heaven only briefly.
If thine loin does lust for the ship on the dark side of the moon, ye shalt be cast into the void of speculation.
Rumble thee forth to the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side and burn their books, cause our book sez no fags or muslims or buddhists allowed.
Fold spindle and mutilate those unbelievers from a neighboring state.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
|
It's funny how people seem to gloss over Obama's "family values". Like they don't even exist. Guy has two young daughters, a dog (yeah we know he ate dog when he was 9) goes to church and all that other BS family values people think is important.
Oh yeah, he's black and has a funny last name. So his family values don't count.
Props to any Republican who can see the writing on the wall concerning this issue. I wonder if all the laws banning same sex marriage will be overturned by the time I die? I bet they do. Except in maybe Mississippi.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
|
for Klimmer:
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
KILL THEM GAYS
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
|
Pagan troll boy hooks a big catch!
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
|
Klimmer:
“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions.”
--Jerry Falwell
You should remember him and his "Moral Majority" right as in very far right.
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
|
Let the state's decide on who can have a civil union.
Let that church decide who can get married.
They just want more and more and more...
It's a stupid f*cked up world we live in.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
|
Kudos to John E
If marriage is going to be defined by religion, then the Government needs to get out of the marriage business because this is in violation of the establishment clause of the constitution.
Talk to an fundamentalist preacher and he might not even recognize hindu or buddhist marriages before God.
Relgions should have the right to marry or not marry whomever they want but the government should be in the business of equal protection.
Who would you rather have as president, a Christian who believes it's more important to treat people with equality and respect, even if it's not his personal faith, or the guy who held down the pansy in high school and cut his hair forcibly?
Peace
Karl
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
|
Here's something I wrote on the subject awhile ago
++++++++
Most of us like to assume that we would have had the moral clarity to oppose slavery when it was still legal. Practically everyone assumes that, prior to 1920, they would have championed a woman’s right to vote. Our noble sense of ourselves tells us that, if we were alive when the country debated whether interracial couples should be allowed to marry, we would have been among those whose vision favored equality over prejudice.
It’s far more difficult however, to look at the present day and imagine what parts of our culture will be considered backward and prejudiced 50 years from now, or 200 years from now. In the year 2090, will society still consider beating another person unconscious to be a valiant sport? Nobody knows.
The issue of gay marriage is a perfect example of a topic that we may someday look back upon in hindsight with greater clarity. At the moment, it’s a perfect political wedge issue. Few common folks in America’s heartland have openly gay friends. It’s easy to deny the gay community rights that all human beings might claim as inalienable. The thought of a man kissing another man makes us uncomfortable, like watching somebody eat a beetle in China. It goes against our own polarity.
It’s easy to ignore the struggle for civil rights of a group we don’t belong to. Our blind loathing of other races, religions, cultures and lifestyles evaporates in the light of familiarity and experience. Observing the long-term relationships of several lesbian couples has taught me that their bonds are meaningful, real and noble. I’m lucky to have friends like them. I have no business denying them the rights, benefits and responsibilities that are available to me. It would be wrong of me not to support them now, as their cause is debated.
Even though there is supposed to be a barrier between church and state, conservatives are claiming that the threat posed by gay marriage is a threat to the “sanctity” of marriage. It is really just a threat to our cultural norms. After all, few of us champion returning to the marriage culture of the Bible, which was between one man, and well, several women. Moses, David, Jacob and many of the other patriarchs of our faith had several wives. The same could be said of Abraham, father of many nations, except that his first-born was with Hagar, his wife’s slave, whom he didn’t marry. There is far more support in the Bible for slavery than there is condemnation of homosexuality. Going back in time isn’t the answer.
The idea of “protecting” marriage seems misguided as well. Everybody who would consider changing sexual preferences if gay marriage was legal raise your hand! Allowing our gay brothers and sisters into the fold might better protect marriage. If gay promiscuity presents a public health problem, then marriage is a positive solution. Without commitment-fearing males in the equation, lesbian marriages might improve on the 50% divorce rate that we heterosexuals have racked up. Another idea would be encouraging the Catholic Church to allow priests to be married, just like the disciples of Jesus were.
Let those without sin cast the first stone. Perhaps the most righteous course would be to judge not…live and let live. We won’t know until after death if support of gay marriage offends God, or if supporting violence and war is the real sin. Religious folks like me would do well to remember the prejudice and persecution that their own faiths suffered during their history.
Gay Marriage costs heterosexual marriage nothing, and promotes the American values of equality, diversity and tolerance. Let the religions decide which of their members can get married; and let the state provide equal rights and protections under the law for everyone. Let’s support the inevitable now, so we don’t look back in shame 30 years from now.
Peace
Karl
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
|
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
|
Kilmmer wrote: Don't expect Christians or other people of faith to be happy about this.
I'm a person of faith and this doesn't bother me a wit.
BTW, if you're relying on the Bible for doctrine, be advised that there is nothing in the Bible expressly condemning (let alone mentioning) girl on girl action. Does this mean "people of faith" are going to condemn just marriage between gay males? Somehow I think not.
Personally, I'm proud that Obama had the balls to take a stand on the issue. Ultimately, it will be up to the states to determine whether they want to legitimize same sex marriage in their jurisdiction but, given that this thread even exists, I believe we all understand just how risky of an issue it was to stand behind. Bravo Mr. President!
Edit: Shut up Fatty.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
May 10, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
|
Leviticus 20:13
Norton beat me to it. Klimmer says he follows god's law, so that while he must hate the sin (homosexuality), he can love the sinners.
But god's law is pretty clear on this Klimmer, god says you can't love the sinners if they're gay. Or, maybe you can love them, but you have to kill them.
Oh, wait. I'm sorry. I forgot that the word of god is only THE WORD OF GOD when it matches your whims, and that it's okay to ignore all the parts you don't like, or that are self-contradictory, or clearly wrong.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!