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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2006 - 02:15pm PT
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Great post Ryan. All you Black Canyon guys are my heroes. I'm prpbably being a bit presumptuous about actually doing Stratosfear - hell, I wasn't sure I could do it when I was climbing regularly in the Black in the early '90s. It's the kind of thing that keeps me going, though. I'm actually considering "working out" to achieve this goal - something I've never done before. Think I'll start off slow - 12 oz curls...
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Apr 21, 2006 - 03:00am PT
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I must fight to keep this important thread from being buried.
So, in the BC we all know it's important to go light in order to not epic and yet there is the reality of having to build anchors and at the same time naturally protect long and varied pitches. What kind of rack are most of you all generally running? One bonus I've noticed is that the stone seems to take nuts unusually well. I've been toying with the idea of just bringing a single set of cams and double set of nuts on relatively moderate routes. Last year I took the opportunity to pick the brain of Kent Wheeler quite a bit and he is a big advocate of the superlight rack modality there.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2006 - 09:35am PT
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Kevin. This is also something it seems that I've always argued with my partners about - I've always been in the going lighter camp.
As far as a single set of cams with a double set of nuts - seems to me, that would work for a number of routes, including the Scenic Cruise. Routes I can think of where that would probably be inadequate include Air Voyage (we had an unbelievably big rack and needed it when I did this with George Lowe last year) and Stoned Oven.
If I had my druthers, on most routes I would double up in the 1-3 camalot size with a single set of cams in the smaller range, where nuts would be adequate. I might say that, having climbed for years before friends came on the scene, we used to make due on some very hard routes without cams.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 21, 2006 - 03:12pm PT
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So its nearly 23 years ago that Newberry gives me some bets for my recon.
I park near the top of SOB and solo the 5.6 onto the rock island so that I can look at the wall below my truck with binos.
While I'm sitting there about 120m away a young ranger pulls up by my truck. I watch him peering into it from various angles unconcerned as things are wrapped up tight. But he's also looking around for ME and even though close he never bothers to look in my direction.
He finally walks to the edge of the cliff and carefully peers over the edge intently. I can barely contain my laughter!
Then he does it.
The ultimate idiocy!
Cupping his hands to his mouth he calls down the vertical to overhanging 300m wall, "Hello???? Hello???"
As soon as he hears me laughing (and nearly wetting my pants at that!) he looks up and across at me and his expression immediately changes.
Apparently he's not happy.
I wonder if he's also the one that "rescued" the dog.
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Apr 21, 2006 - 07:36pm PT
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bump
Yea Grug, no doubt. And think how much better passive gear is these days. Maybe we've been lured into thinking we need cams to protect the small/medium range because they're so convenient/expensive. They're also bulky and heavier. Since having to build belays is an issue in the Black I think a good stategy is to be prepared to trim down the belay to equip the leader with the crucial shiite once they get going i.e. get a piece in. Also, how about the rope, rack, and camelback system, wherein there is no pack for the second to carry and all stay hydrated? Seems to work. So, what's the gear beta for Air Voyage then? Sorry to be so persistent on this thread but I value the info a lot. Thanks
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Apr 21, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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I play it both ways...on the GREAT anti-gravity days, single set o cams, and some stoppers, 10 draws, cordalette, standard nalgene, running shoes, t-shirt.
On a geez I need to survive day..double set o cams to blue BD, 15 draws, lettte, nalgene, long sleeve shirt, running shoes.
My Air Voyage rack, Add 2 old purple BD 4s and an old green 5 cam..
The second rack is what we took on most routes with "long pitches"....unless we were unkillable.
Ryan left out his single cam belay on that next to last H-wall pitch, only time we've EVER raised our voices climbing.
Hey Ryan, I'm getting out tomorrow...kiss my ass pappy!
MUch love,
B
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2006 - 12:26am PT
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My Air Voyage rack recommendation would have been quite a bit different if you asked me in 1992 vs now.
Back then, I went with a rack pretty much like Brent's. More recently, went with a rack that included lots of big stuff, and ended up aiding the crux. The old guy, more recent ascent did give me a perspective on just what fits and what doesn't in the crux offwidth. Here's the beta, the #6 camalot, almost entirely open, fits pretty much the whole way up. Above that, the crack takes up to #5 camalots.
Other than that pitch, we (George and I) ended up using 3 #4 camalots lower on the climb.
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Apr 22, 2006 - 10:50am PT
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Any of you guys done Shattered Glass in the Long Draw area? Looks sporty.
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guest
climber
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Apr 23, 2006 - 12:56am PT
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Reading the old stories just leaves me shaking my head. Brent mentions the old Millionaire Drive crew from Boulder -- the first story I heard of some of those guys in the Black was from Bruce Andrews (RIP) when bouldering at Rod's (RIP, too) garage gym here in Estes Park. Brucey described going climbing with Pennings on a new route down there, starting with Mike's anemic rack and frying up bacon as it's like 8, 9, 10am. "Uh, Mikey, ya know, I usually bring a bit more gear and try to get an earlier start on these deals," Bruce said.
"Yeah, we'll be fine," Mike replied, grinning.
Brucey said Mike smiled the whole way while climbing like it mattered, routefinding and punching it through runout cruxes.
First time I went there, Scott DeCapio and I rode down with Jonny Copp and Dylan Taylor. Next morning Jonny's frying up bacon long after everyone else has left the campground; Scotty and I cast nervous looks at each other. Finally we finish the big breakfast, tie on the ropes, rack, etc, and it's immediately apparent how those guys pull sh#t off -- it's like two speeds, stop and go. Jonny starts running ("C'mon, you guys!"), and the whole way down the gully he & Dylan are hooting and hollering, simulrapping, laughing, running to the base. Infectious energy for sure, enough to override mine and Scotty's intimidation -- we had a great first day in the Black. Of course, Scotty and I did the walk of shame the next day, though.
About a year later Josh Wharton and I went there, our first time climbing together, and after the route he asked if I'd be into going to Pakistan -- ended up being the trip of a lifetime for me. Just before the trip, however, we were there again and simulclimbing the first pitch of a route, I'm above the crux and on 5.8-ish terrain, gotta simul with Josh on like 5.5. I don't have the right pro and I'm about 30 feet above a ledge, but Josh on 5.5? No worries. Suddenly I hear Josh yell and feel 60m of rope stretching, stretching, pulling... a hold broke and Josh sailed clean off. I held on for dear life (that ledge I'd slingshot into...) and somehow held him until he got back on. He busted up his ankle, we bailed, and I trembled with "what if" fear the whole walk-of-shame out.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but all the awesome stories on this thread remind me of a thought I had before I first went to the Black. I'd hear about these guys from Boulder (mostly the Millionaire Drive crew and their subsequent extension, like Jonny & Josh) firing awesome alpine rock lines in big, burly mountains -- Greenland, Pakistan, Alaska, Patagonia, etc. I've always loved alpinism, so I'd wonder, "OK, I know Boulder has great cragging, but how in the hell do these Boulder guys go to these places and do the most mind-blowing things?" When Scotty and I went to the Black that first time, though, where all those guys seemed to cut their teeth -- like so many hardmen before them -- we just nodded our heads, "Ohhhhh, I get it now."
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Apr 23, 2006 - 01:56am PT
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speaking of shattered glass, a story from the shack...
what up kigga? Got a little schmack down loop going here in RR, even putting the watch on stuff for the first time.
HOpe the haps are good out that way.
We ain't going nowhere. We ain't...
B
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 23, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
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I just skimmed this thread, nice.
I've been down and up the Cruise Gully in something almost as light as a kung fu slipper. Billy WestBay's wife got them for me for just this purpose.
We climbed 5 pitches in 45 min, by simuling most of it, just so I could taste the nice initial 5.10 cracks before the rain pushed us off and back up the Cruise Gulley.
Per the Stonemasters, I'd bet most core Stonemasters knew of Dunn, Wiggins, Coyne, et al by way of the Yosemite connection.
Upthread, I didn't see any accounts of the Russian Arete.
Kor 5.9 right? It looks a bit loose and ridgy and fun.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2006 - 08:21am PT
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Tarbuster. I guess I never doubted that most all the Stonemasters knew of the Springs boys. Come to thing of it, my original comment was kind of stupidly stated. All I really wanted to say was soenthing like "those Colorado Springs guys sure were good".
Back to Black Canyon stories. OK So I gotta come clean on my 2005 ascent of Air Voyage with George Lowe, which I mentioned in the George Lowe thread. The part I forgot was - We DID climb like old men - particularly me. Then there was the part where I was in charge of the water and only managed to get one water bottle in the pack - doh! I remember being real thirsty on the crux pitch. Thirsty, and tired.
So, it's getting late on a Fall day. My girlfriend and our two young girls are waiting back at camp. I had told them we'd top out around 4:00 - 4:30 (what was I thinking?). Here I am again, confronting the crux pitch of Air Voyage - for the third time.
The pitch that was my last lead, just about killed me. It's a beautiful pitch, the best one on the climb, I think. The last 10 feet include an offwidth section - just bigger than fist. I had to resort to some hang dogging (the shame) - George followed it as a lieback. In my 1990s ascents, I don't remember even slowing down through this section. I'm beginning to wonder if, perhaps, another Black Canyon climb - or any climb would have been a better choice for my first climb with George in several years.
So back to the crux pitch. I had led this in 1991 with Clean Dan and in and 1992 with Tom Dickey. With Clean Dan, it seems likely that I had at least one big cam that actually fit the crux (Dan was a big gearhead)- with Tom, we didn't have anything - maybe big bros that I didn't use. What I DID have back then was the ability to fire the thing - something I could have used a little more of in the more recent ascent. This time, I had big gear that included two #4.5s, a 5, and 6 camalot. After some feeble attempts, I started aiding. It was already looking like we'd be topping out after dark and I was pretty sure that I was not going to do it in good style.
I aided just up to the top of the 7-inch offwidth, where I could get two #4 camalots in for a belay. George led the still-wide 5.10 crack above (this is technically, the 8th Voyage finish). This pitch has a wild horizontal slither at its end - much harder but kind of like the Womb Fight pitch.
We end up topping out at 9:15. A funny side note is that my girlfriend was getting a bit nervous, of course, and not only had she talked with Ranger Brent, but also with Leonard Coyne - the first ascentionist. Leonard apparently had a project going on (in fact, we ran into his fixed ropes on the climb). So Leonard offers her (and me when I got up, presumeably), steaks and beer. I never did see Leonard that day. I figure he was just hitting on Elizabeth.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 24, 2006 - 10:51am PT
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I heard, a year or two ago, of Leonard Coyne and someone else climbing with a guy that Leonard had just met, who had a fatal heart attack halfway up the Journey Home with them. Anyone know the details?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 24, 2006 - 06:59pm PT
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*bump*
no words on the russian arete from anyone?
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Apr 24, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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Leonard was climbing in a party of three. The guy was out of shape, never climbed in Black and I think Leonard was guiding him up the route. He had a heart attack around the fourth pitch. They tied him off and I think they finished the route and removed the body the next day.
Weird...
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Apr 24, 2006 - 08:42pm PT
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Yea, how about that Russian Arete? Could be dicey. Hmm...
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2006 - 08:52pm PT
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I may or may not have done the Russian Arete back in the early '90s. I do remember free-soloing a route that was basically one or two crack systems to the climber's right of the Russian Arete circa 2001. My overall impression is that the Russian Arete is not nearly as good as most of the North Chasm View Wall routes.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 24, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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I know a guy who did it and claims staying stoned kept his mind off the loose stuff. As a loper, it looks compelling.
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Fry Guy
Trad climber
Bondale, CO
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Apr 25, 2006 - 01:37am PT
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Son of a bitch! I just wrote half this story and somehow erased it. SH#T!
Oh well try again. So the B-dog and I are down there for the first time since our accidents. Recap, I'd fallen down a mountain and turned my foot around backwards, he's frozen his toes off one foot. We're both fresh off the crutches so we're limpin like Snoop Dog on the prowl and in a hurry as we hobble down the SOB. We're totally siked to be crushin it again as we reach the river but by the time we get to Porcelian a few clouds appear and bring us back to reality. We realize that our objective though easy in the old days may not be so simple today. Besides I swear the route looked wet anyways;-) But there's no way in hell were puttin our heads between our legs and heading back up the SOB. After deep thought we realize we are also standing somewhere near the base of the Alpine Arete. B-dogs off and running before I've stopped staring at Porcelain and back at the clouds. "F*#K! This could get ugly but I guess this IS how you roll in the Black. We're climbing out of here rain or shine. Better get goin". I pick an easier looking crack system to the left of Brents chosen line. I make it to easy terrain first and sit down to put on my shoes and wait, and wait, and wait. "Should I poke my head over? No I don't want to know. Whew!" And we're on our way. Rope up for the first crux. A slightly run out 5.7 and I'm sketchin. "Suck it up biatch, you know how to do this!". I send that sh#t and we're simuclimbin to heaven. This is what we've needed for so long. I feel no pain as we run up the 5.0 terrain. "Man this is the sh#t we live for, we got this all the way.......What do you think right or left?" We take right and Brent takes the lead. Soon we've reached crux two, a stout runout and dirty 5.6+++ that's a testimate to Kors routefinding. If you do this section wrong it looks to be 5.11x dirt. Crazy pitch that we find a piton at the top of. "Oh yeah! We're on route. Up the obvious gully..... obviously" Unfortunately, after a bit, the gully just ends. We're stopped dead in our tracks at a monsterous headwall. I try up, right, down, around. "SHIIIIIIIIIIIT!" Only option we find is out left. Looks to be a tough headwall to enter another gully system that appears to lead to salvation. I give it a go and quickly resort to an aid move to get established. "Watch me! I have to do some moves to get into the next crack. SH#T!" I'm shitin, this isn't what I bargained for and it's definately NOT 5.6. Hatin on it all the way I finish off the pitch and the dog soon follows with congrats. Now we're in the apparantly "easy" gully that we'll simul to the top and be out of here.....so we thought. Brents lead and we're limpin more than ever. Easy terrain quickly gets harder and harder and harder but we keep truckin on. We're in the groove now baby. 5.9 loose blocks of death! Perfect Black with plenty of sticker bushes to boot. Lovin it, I take the sharp end after Brent runs it out to another headwall. "No way I'm aidin this one. I got it." Vertical wall......Up left...fade back right...through the roof....no pro worth a sh#t....every hold is a test......still no pro worth a sh#t........perfect crack.....LOVIN IT!!!!!.....still no pro but who gives a sh#t. "I'm flyin biaaatch. We own this!" Just like the old days. "We're back B-dog!" No need to stop and belay we know how to roll on this terrain. This is classic Black and the exact reason we've come here today. That pitch went on forever. I stopped 100ft of bushes below the summit and watched Brent fire up the final moves smilin like a clown riding a unicycle, juggling fire with a beautifull babe balanced on his chin. He loved it just as much as I did. You see the Black WILL give you the adventure your looking for at any level of difficulty you think you've chosen.
Days later as I'm pickin the stickers out of my skin and scratching the ivy swells I think back to the top of the dirt pitch where we found the pin. "Did that f*#kin Kor head out right to the buttress that appeared to lead to nowhere? Come to think of it there was a traverse ledge at that pin and when I tried to traverse right up higher and was stopped by the blank slab I saw an easy line of holds out there. Damn! Now that is some skilled route finding"
I bet Kor was feeling the Black the day he headed out there, out to the edge of nowhere and just kept going up. He knew he was crushin it. He knew how to lead the way......Don't worry Kor. We'll keep following you......and maybe someday we learn to traverse right...
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Fry Guy
Trad climber
Bondale, CO
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Apr 25, 2006 - 01:44am PT
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How do I post a photo?
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