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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:05pm PT
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[edit]
here pedro has deleted another post, for what purpose i am not sure, my original post is unedited below.
[/edit]
that's all fine, but if your going to be identifying the problems w/ internet forums, it pays to be aware another problem is that there are lots of concerns on the internet over smarmy guys who look for pretty girls to meet, and in some cases to take advantage of or even just disrespect or offend. we all hear the stories and know it goes on out there somewhere, so the idea of it going on under one's own nose is not a comfortable thing.
that being said, most (in fact nearly all) men choose to conduct themselves in general in a way that does not include a certain forward type of behavior, if for no other reason than it can easily be interpreted (or possibly misinterpreted) as threatening or offensive.
quite honestly, for anyone whose style can be identified in such a way (for example, someone who is much much more outgoing wrt women in a forum than men), and when such a style then bites someone in the butt, i would have to say that i have a limited amount of empathy.
nothing is ever fair, but at the same time, we all reap what we sew.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:10pm PT
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:13pm PT
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LOL
i'm outta here- what is that blue stuff up there where the clouds are supposed to be?
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:20pm PT
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in response to the thread title...
yes we can....(evil laugh in the background, sounding like GW)
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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Apr 14, 2006 - 04:44pm PT
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Matt, weren't you one of his biggest anonymous slanderers? That is the information I received during my PTPP syndrome research.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 05:26pm PT
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Aw, sh#t, man! I just remembered. Major brain fart here.
Matt is that little @sshole FREEclimber!
I fricking forgot. You intolerable little piece of sh#t, whose real name is MATT OWEN!
GO FUKK YOURSELF!
You pathetic snivelling dipshit worm. You're that little short-@ss who climbs at the Ironworks, aren't you? The one who suffers from NAPOLEONIC COMPLEX because you're a little 5'4" piece of NOTHING. No wonder you haven't climbed a wall - you're too short to reach the frickin' rivets.
Hey, Ironworks climbers! This is what Matt does in his spare time. Another formerly nameless and faceless detractor of mine, however he still lacks a dick.
Frig, it all makes sense now. Matt's the one who took his Napoleonic Complex to Supertopo. Speaking of Syndromes, Napoleonic Complex is also known as Little Man's Syndrome.
You're the one who used to post stuff like, "Do you even climb in the Valley?" as if you were some local hardman or something! Come see me in the Valley this spring, Matt. I am more than just a syndrome. How's that for being smarmy?
Edit your posts above, dude, and I'll remove this. I am greatly offended by your present and past behaviour against me, which is especially astonishing and reprehensible because we have never even met!
Unbelievable little cowardly prick. {shaking my head}
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2006 - 05:41pm PT
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Goddamn it, I can't tell if I'm being accused or if it's matt. MATT!!! START YOUR OWN THREAD FOR THESE ISSUES!!!
Sorry. Let me get back on topic.
Pete--I have climbed many ASCA affected routes. Good enough?
Karl, if you didn't care that much, you wouldn't be posting as much. Get past your denial and admit it does make a difference to you. You're a valuable contributor.
As to the Nanook and Chris responding in time comment...well, that's been my goal from the get go. Actually, we already know what's happening with Sloan. What we really need is an official denial from Chris. It seems awfully strange that he won't give it. My guess is that he doesn't like to lie. Well, Chris. Fuking lie. Lie your fuking ass off. I would rather look like a fool, than find out you can't lie. Lie boy. Lie like any elected official. You can dooooo it.
As for how many people I've talked to and said they know about Chris' involvement in said activities... it's more than just Minerals and it's less than 50. I know of at least 4 on this website. I don't have video or pictures, so that's the best evidence I can offer (other than his continued silence, his responding to my threats/bribes to take this issue more public if I didn't regain access to this site, and...shite, there was something else but I forgot).
Kelly, I appreciate your comments. As usual, they're thought provoking:
"Not a very bright way to remain a welcome guest to this forum..."
Well, I'm back. I was never here because I was wanted. And if someone doesn't take on the gadfly role, then how are we going to have a lively discussion. Hey, I've never been able to figure out what IMHO stands for?
"I for one am happy to have safe bolts on many routes, but I DO NOT endorse adding bolts to existing lines."
This goes back to my point from way back about you not being an aid climber. Okay, you've done some aid, but you really are a free climber, yeah?
"By repeatedly starting new threads on the subject, you start the game. Fess up to it."
No, I'm just calling for extra innings. But whatever man. Fine, I say play ball. WTF?
"So you are claiming that the Wilderness Act is an unjust "law." Ho boy..."
Ho man (of the K)...Not exactly. I'd rather make the claim that I have serious issues with how our society thinks of wilderness. You should read a book by Jack Turner called "The Abstract Wild" to understand what I'm getting at. And if Yosemite wants to consider El Cap wilderness, all I can do is laugh. I mean, come the phuck on.
"Get your issue(s) straight. What is it, the ASCA members or replacing old rivets?"
It's about both. Read the Minerals post over again.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 05:44pm PT
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Billygoat - yes, good enough.
Apologies for the apparent hijack, which was never my intention. I will remove my insults from this post as soon as Matt removes his specious comments.
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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Apr 14, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
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The thread hijack is all my fault. I mentioned my research regarding the "PTPP syndrome" and I believe that is what started it.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Apr 14, 2006 - 05:58pm PT
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I'm certainly interested in the goings on, as far as bolting, power drills, etc. Especially when it comes to Nanook. It's also gone beyond those things to clearing out large swaths of land at the base, using a come-along to do so, lobbing small boulders off of ledges to make them more "homey" ot "roomy" or whatever...
I've said it before, and am saying it again. Like Mr. T - "I pity da foo, who I catch in an act like this." MOST people who are passionate, in any way, about the outdoors are going to be offended by this. Plenty will be pissed off by it, and when they get the ass whuppin' they just may deserve, for doing it over and over, not alot of people will be surprised. Some will even feel a bit of satisfaction in it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time fists were flying in C4 or at the base of The Captain, now would it? But, really, when you look around at the state of this country and how Americans carry on daily, so-called politics, Prez Shrub, etc., what else can you really expect? Accountability for one's actions was long ago thrown out the door in this country.
As far as Pete... Having been in both places, as things played out (usually lurking more than anything), I can whole-heartedly say that after all the bullshit he went through on RC, defending himself all along the way, only to come here and have it start up again, probably by some of the same folks with new "identities"... Well, feck! I'd get pretty sick of playing the game and going through the motions too. Maybe buddy just wants to be left alone and hopes it will just go away. Thn he can get to doing what he enjoys; talk about climbing? OK, about himself a bit and even hotties.
I know he's stated, repeatedly, to people over and over that if they want to talk to him about these things, confront him, kick his ass, whatever, they know where he'll be 2 times a year, equaling about 25% of said year. Damn if that isn't accomodating, as far as accountability and facing things head on.
I don't want to get into this big Pete debate, or bolting debate, or any of that crap. Just stating it the way I see it. And incidentally, I'll be in Yos tomorrow at Cookie, on Dihedral Wall May 19th-??? if you want to talk to me about it. =)
Cheers!
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Newton
Big Wall climber
Key West
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:09pm PT
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Chris Mac has done a lot for the climbing community...maybe you should drop it billygoat.
OJ did a lot for football.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:12pm PT
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hahahaha
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:19pm PT
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The problem is BillyGoat.....This is the internet...your concerns will never have any real impact here, especially HERE! You want to really get answers? Step away from your computer and show your face somewhere and speak, then you will get answers....until then you got nothing but an internet rumor from "someone" calling himself BillyGoat and a lousy one if you ask me..
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:22pm PT
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Word, Bilbo!
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Newton
Big Wall climber
Key West
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:28pm PT
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billygoat & rajmit are the two of the most real people here.
It is a shame that their messages, which are 100 percent accurate, fall onto the ears of hero worshippers that look for any excuse to not accept the message.
I guess you fools also think we need rid the world of the works of:
Cecil Adams (author of The Straight Dope column—real name unknown)
Guillaume Apollinaire (Guillaume Albert Vladimir Apollinaire de Kostrowitzky), 20th-century French poet, writer, and art critic
Tudor Arghezi (Ion N. Theodorescu), 20th-century Romanian poet and children's author
Avi (Edward Irving Wortis), writer of children's books
Ba Jin (Li Yaotang), 20th-century Chinese writer
Richard Bachman (Stephen King) 20th-century horror author
W. N. P. Barbellion (Bruce Frederick Cummings), 20th century diarist
'BB' (Denys Watkins-Pitchford), 20th-century illustrator and children's book author
Beachcomber (D.B. Wyndham-Lewis and John Bingham Morton), used for the surrealist humorous column "By the Way" in the Daily Express
Acton Bell, Currer Bell, and Ellis Bell (Anne Brontë, Charlotte Brontë, Emily Brontë)
Nicolas Bourbaki (a group of mainly French 20th-century mathematicians)
Mary Westmacott (Agatha Christie) 20th century British writer
Kir Bulychev (Кир Булычёв) Igor Vsevolodovich Mozheyko (И́горь Все́володович Може́йко), 20th century Russian science fiction writer and historian
Anthony Burgess (John ['Jack'] Burgess Wilson), 20th century British writer
Lewis Carroll (Charles Lutwidge Dodgson), 19th century British author, mathematician, Anglican clergyman, logician, and amateur photographer, writer of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
Cassandra (William Connor), 20th century left-wing journalist for The Daily Mirror
P. Mustapää, (Martti Haavio) 20th century Finnish poet,
James Herriot ( James Alfred Wight), 20th century British writer.
Aapeli, (Simo Puupponen), 20th century Finnish writer and chatty articler
Geoffrey Crayon (Washington Irving), early 19th-century writer
Petri Pykälä , (Ilkka Remes) 20th and 21th century Finnish writer
Maiju Lassila, Irmari Rantamala, Algoth Tietäväinen, Väinö Stenberg, J.I. Vatanen, Liisan-Antti ja Jussi Porilainen (Algot Untola), 20th century Finnish author.
Sue Denim (Dav Pilkey), writer and illustrator of the popular "Captain Underpants" children's book series (Sue Denim is a parody of the word pseudonym); also used by science fiction writer Lewis Shiner
Carter Dickson (John Dickson Carr), 20th century author of detective stories
Isak Dinesen (Karen Blixen), 20th century Danish author of "Out of Africa"
H.D. (Hilda Doolittle), 20th century American imagist poet, novelist and memoirist
George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans), 19th century English novelist
Paul Eluard (Eugène Grindel) 20th century French Dada and Surrealist poet
C. S. Forester (Cecil Smith), 20th century writer of the Captain Horatio Hornblower novels, "The African Queen". and other novels
Anatole France (Jacques Anatole François Thibault), 20th century French author
Pat Frank (Harry Hart Frank), 20th century author of the apocalyptic novel Alas, Babylon
Nicci French (Nicci Gerard and Sean French)
Anthony Gilbert (Lucy Beatrice Malleson), British author of the Arthur Crook crime fiction novels
K. Hardesh (Clement Greenberg), 20th century American art critic
O. Henry (William Sidney Porter), American author of short stories and novels
Hergé (Georges Remi), 20th century Belgian comics writer and artist, famous worldwide for creating the Tintin series of books
Iceberg Slim Robert Beck, an African American writer.
Jinyong or Kam-yung (Louis Cha), 20th century Chinese-language novelist
Robert Jordan (James Oliver Rigney, Jr.), the author of the bestselling The Wheel of Time fantasy series.
Deidrich Knickerbocker (Washington Irving), early 19th-century writer
Ann Landers (Esther Pauline Friedman), advice columnist
Stan Lee (Stanley Martin Lieber), comic book pioneer
Lu Xun (Zhou Shuren), 20th century Chinese writer and cultural critic
Maddox (George Ouzounian), The Best Page in the Universe
Mao Dun (Shen Dehong), 20th century Chinese novelist, cultural critic, and journalist
Multatuli (Eduard Douwes Dekker), Dutch writer famous for his satirical novel, Max Havelaar (1860)
Murray Leinster (William Fitzgerald Jenkins), 20th century science fiction author
Molière (Jean Baptiste Poquelin), 17th century French theatre writer, director and actor, and writer of comic satire.
Natsume Sōseki (Natsume Kinnosuke), early 20th century Japanese novelist
Gérard de Nerval (Gérard Labrunie), 19th century French poet, essayist and translator
Pablo Neruda (Ricardo Eliecer Neftalí Reyes Basoalto) 20th century Chilean poet. Nobel laureate.
Abu Nuwas (Hasin ibn Hani al Hakami) 8th century Arabic language poet (Persia)
George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair), 20th century British author and essayist
Ouida (Marie Louise de la Ramée), 19th century English novelist
William Penn (Jeremiah Evarts), 19th century activist against Indian removal
Q (Arthur Quiller-Couch), late 19th and early 20th century British author, poet, and literary critic
Ellery Queen (Frederic Dannay and Manfred B. Lee), 20th century detective fiction
Pauline Réage (Anne Desclos), 20th century French author and critic who wrote Histoire d'O
Henry Handel Richardson (Ethel Florence Lindesay Richardson), early 20th century Australian author
J. K. Rowling (Joanne "Jo" Rowling), author of the Harry Potter series.
Saki (Hector Hugh Munro), early 20th century British satirist
George Sand (Armandine Lucie Aurore Dupin), 19th century French novelist and early feminist
Sapphire (Ramona Lofton), 20th century African-American poet and author
Sayeh (ه. ا. سایه) Hushang Ebtehaj, 20th century Iranian poet (هوشنگ ابتهاج)
Dr. Seuss (Theodore Seuss Geisel), also used "Theo. LeSieg", 20th century American writer and cartoonist best known for his of children's books
Shahriar (شهریار) Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Behjat-Tabrizi (Persian: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی), an Iranian poet, writing in Persian and Azerbaijani
Cordwainer Smith (Paul M. A. Linebarger), 20th century science fiction author
Lemony Snicket (author of A Series of Unfortunate Events—Daniel Handler)
Stendhal (Marie-Henri Beyle),19th century French writer
Max Stirner (Johann Kaspar Schmidt), 19th century German philosopher
Juhani Tervapää (Hella Wuolijoki) 20th-century Estonian-born Finnish writer
James Tiptree, Jr (Alice Sheldon), 20th century science fiction author
Toegye (Yi Hwang), 16th century Korean Confucian scholar
Tom Tomorrow (Dan Perkins) 20th century editorial cartoonist
Lazlo Toth (Don Novello), using name taken from that of a deranged man who vandalized Michelangelo's Pieta in Rome, the pen name was used for the satiric "The Lazlo Letters" and other books
Trevanian (Dr. Rodney Whitaker), 20th century American spy novelist
Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorn Clemens, also used "Sieur Louis de Conte" for his fictional biography of Joan of Arc), 19th century American humorist, writer and lecturer
Abigail Van Buren (Dear Abby - Pauline Esther Friedman Phillips), advice columnist
Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet), 18th century French Enlightenment writer, deist and philosopher
Walter (Henry Spencer Ashbee), 19th Century book collector, writer, bibliographer, and suspected author of My Secret Life, the sexual memoirs of a Victorian era gentleman
Wang Shiwei 王實味 (Wang Sidao 王思禱), 20th century Chinese journalist and literary writer
Artemus Ward (Charles Farrar Browne), 19th century American humor writer
Ibn Warraq is a pen name that has traditionally been adopted by dissident authors throughout the history of Islam, including a current writer from India.
Wonkette (Ana Marie Cox) [1], political gossip weblog writer
Hajime Yatate (Various Sunrise animation staff members)
Yulgok (Yi I), 16th century Korean Confucian scholar
K. A. Applegate (Katherine Alice Applegate) wrote the Animorphs, Remnants, and Everworld book series. She wrote/writes books under many other pen names as well.
All these people did not use their real names in their professional lives. The only people that overly concern themselves with "REAL" identities are those people that will then attack that person over their identity insetad of their message.
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Ouch!
climber
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:35pm PT
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Newton, That was a wordy post. Why are you people being so mean to each other?
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:37pm PT
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:41pm PT
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"zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......"
Wow! That was brilliantly original!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 14, 2006 - 06:42pm PT
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Justin, IMHO = in my honest opnion, as in:
IMHO, I think you've finally come around to making the accusations you've wanted to make for a while. And you've finally done it in your own words. But I can't tell if you want to say FO to the Winderness Act, FO how it's implemented, FO to the ASCA members who've been rumored to power drill against the Wilderness Act, or just a general FO to various ASCA members. It seems you just want to rant and that your actual goal here is pretty unclear. If it's just to bring up a bunch of slander about our host, and then I can't hold it against someone for pressing the button.
As for me being predominently a free climber, you got that right. I (like other free climbers) are impacted by the general stance on bolts, be it retro-bolting, rebolting, or straight out anchor placement. Unless you can find a way to bring about some meaningful discussion to what you're started, your wanting to "play more ball" just seems an excuse to spew.
kelly
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2006 - 07:13pm PT
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Billy Goat wrote
"Karl, if you didn't care that much, you wouldn't be posting as much. Get past your denial and admit it does make a difference to you. You're a valuable contributor."
I'm honest when I say it doesn't make a dang big of difference to me if Chris Mac or his ASCA buddies replaces a 1/4 incher with a 3/8ths or a rivet with a bigger rivet. They have clearly articulated the ethics and standards that they use when maintaining route and any execptions to that done by individuals associated with the ORG are just that, exceptions.
I also don't care if, and I don't know this be be true, somebody used a power drill to maintain a route. I think it's great that drills are illegal in the park so wannabe guidebook crashers don't spray the place with contrived routes. If the folks I trust need to use them to maintain routes, then as a far as I'm concerned it's a "Don't ask, don't tell" kinda thing. If somebody abuses that latitude, we talk to em or chop the offense if we feel that strong and can't work it out.
I will admit that I DO care that you are naming names and spelling out crimes in a public forum that NPS monitors while hiding behind a non-identity. That is an offense to me. I don't think you are a bad guy. I do think you haven't thought this through enough and don't understand the way climbers have to deal with these issue amoung themselves.
So just like I won't be phoning NPS if one of our buddies crashes for the night in his truck (as long as he doesn't dump his trash in the road)
and I won't be phoning NPS if a rummy aid climber gets in his rig and drives after 3 beers (cause I know he's a functional drunk and probably won't be erratic)
and I won't be phoning NPS if I see a Japanese guy bring his own guide to Yosemite with him cause YMS doesn't speak Japanese
and I won't be phoning NPS if I see somebody doing some drug that I don't approve of.
I also won't condone you naming names and making public accusations behind a anonymous moniker. It just invites "THE MAN" to feel like they need to address a problem that been thrust into their face when it's something that we could solve via private email.
I appreciate Klaus (Happy Birthday dude) and Minerals and others who get upset over this stuff. I disagree with a lot of bolt chopping that they support and they disagree over rebolting methods. Even so, I'm all for live and let live and let's not get our panties in a bunch over some little bolts that really don't make jack squat difference in the climbs except perhaps for the better.
Tangerine Trip was a lame pile of misdrilled mank before it's maintenance. Could it have be maintained better? Mabye but I didn't have to spend the time and money so I'll accept what the folks did who took the time, just like I accepted the level of "clean-up" of Zodiac even though I thought it would lead to more new heading and rock damage in the long run. A bolt or a rivet is just a artificial clip to get you to the real climbing. I think folks should relax a bit about it.
Peace
Karl
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