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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Apr 16, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
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Nice work guys. This post needs to stay on page one.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 16, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
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I had to do a double-take.
Check out Alternative Concept 1 in the following:
Yosemite Village and Camp Six Concepts
Seriously, look at the proposed footprint for the lodge. Added walk-in camping, more parking.
Quick, wake me UP !!
[OK, Alternatives 3 & 4 brought me back.]
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CF
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2012 - 06:59pm PT
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Yes the roundabouts will be quite LARGE..
Maybe I missed it but there is no mention of restricting tour buses? They certainly have a large impact, noise, pollution, visual. 30 are coming in the Arch Rock Gate every morning these days with that number increasing. Most are day tours.
At the El Portal meeting it was mentioned that the Ice Rink was going to be removed yet there is no mention of the Ice Rink in Workbook. Therefore the public does not know that it is going to be removed and therefore can not comment on it.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:01am PT
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Reducing camping?? SERIOUSLY?? We need some hard facts to fight this one. I hear people talk about the reduction of available sites since the big flood, can anyone provide some stats to back up that claim so when we comment we've got something besides anecdotal evidence to back it up??
Sites by campground and maybe total campsites by say every 5 years going back to the 80s at least? (Tent) Camping should be a high priority in a park like Yosemite and we all know how difficult it is to get a campsite in the Valley from May to October.
How many crags are served by pullouts? I think there are quite a few. We need a definition of what is considered a pullout in this plan.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:53am PT
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I remember my girlfriend getting a job as a fundraiser at YNHA in about 1985. There was a grand plan to "fix" the valley, something about moving everything out to El Portal. Deja vu all over again. Motives were more pure back then, over time money has corrupted the process.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 17, 2012 - 03:55am PT
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I was a contributor (as were hundreds) in voting which alternatives to support when the first grand master plan was worked up. I was in High school I think.
The problem with my contribution then, and with many ideas now, are that I wasn't intimately familiar with the park and how things work. The devil is in the details. It's easy to say "let the employees all live out of the park" until you realize that the road close regularly due to rockslides and snow, sometimes for weeks, and there is an impact on roads and pollution from people commuting in every day, and until you know that working and living the park is a great experience as well and nobody wants to picnic where the employees are living anyway even if they removed housing.
The transportation plan is the real madness that will turn the park into a nightmare to visit if it's ever enacted. Still noisy with tons of busses but a big hassle for those who have to come in from Badger pass on shuttles with their strollers, haul bags and camping gear, cooler and more
Peace
karl
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 17, 2012 - 11:39am PT
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3-17-22
Yosemite Valley Visitors and Convention Bureau
re: changes in the near future
l. Visitors waiting to ride the "Good Old Days Tweet Bus" attraction must present their Golden Disney pass to the concierge at each end of the line.
2. The bolting exhibit has been shut down pending more discussion on ethics.
3. The Half Dome cable cars will begin operations this summer beginning on June 1. Service will be every twenty minutes on all three cars.
4. Go suck a rock Tees now available in tie-dyed fashion colors at the Gap in the Mall Wall.
5. The old fence around the EC meadow has been replaced with bamboo plantings.
6. The Lloyd Price Trout Fishing Contest will be held this year at the outfall of the swamp buggy obstacle course. All swamp buggies are asked to respect the no wake policy during the contest.
7. Now that the Sentinel and Washington Column are off-limits to non-guided parties, the crowding at the base is more manageable.
8. The snow-plow races at Ostrander are being held up by construction of a new parking lot at the top of Misery Hill. Please be aware that they may not be held this year.
9. The Toad Hall Casino will be presenting a new revue nightly, based on the historic Battle of Snow Creek Falls.
10. The raising of the face of the dam at Wawona has been approved. The availability of sufficient water for the South Fork Water Park is assured.
11. The Lauria Chapter of the Deafeners of Wildlife has donated $1,500 to the fund to retrofit the Virtual Firefall screen on G.P.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Apr 17, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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7. Now that the Sentinel and Washington Column are off-limits to non-guided parties, the crowding at the base is more manageable.
There's crowding at the base of Sentinel? What happened to the other crags in the ten years between now and then that made people line up for that approach (and descent)?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 17, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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Yosemite is the ambassador of Nature and the environment to the washed masses. John Muir encouraged people to come to the mountains and get their good tidings.
Sad to say but I support Yosemite Valley be accessible to Mom and Pop and the kids, That's how I got initiated into the rest of my life
Peace
Karl
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Mom
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
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Since I am now older than dirt, have been visiting YNP for over 50 years, based on past experience, I am not going to hold my breath for any major changes. Something leads me to believe that there is a lot of pie in the sky wishing/planning going on 'ere with less than 10% actual action and a few egos involved.
1. Campsites need to be increased in the Valley; Karl has the right reason. Emphasis should be on 'all' and not just what works for climbers. We cannot forget that accessibility for all physical abilities needs to be honored.
2. The underpass is a wonderful idea... I might hold my breath on this plan/suggestion.
3. We are ultimately going to have to face the harsh reality that at some point in the future (whether near or far, my crystal ball is broken) we are all going to have to take a number/have reservations for ENTRY and OVER NIGHT STAYS this wonderful place. I believe we all agree this national treasure could possibly be visited until severely wounded.
My question: IS the scientific method is being used for establishing ANY & ALL basis/baseline/foundational limits?? Is Information true? (For those of us who work with number we know that numbers can be made to confirm any agenda one chooses.)
Be well & Be blessed.
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Ben Doyle
climber
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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CF,
Thanks for posting. This is an incredibly important decision for us, climbers, to contibute to.
jstan,
I can relate to your story, so many of us (including myself), feel entitled to use the park the way we want to. Then, when someone confronts us about our impact, we take no action nor accountability until consequences are imminent.
On the other hand, when others see us taking positive action, many will follow our lead.
All,
Take action, but think about it first. Change is scary, but climbers stand to gain from many of these alternatives. "Just say no" is not taking action nor accountability. Instead, lets ask why, and what if. The Access Fund and the AAC are striving to represent us in the superintendent's office, and in this decision making process. Here's the AAC opinion.
And here is the Access Fund Comment.
Thanks to everyone who reads this thread for taking the time to think about this issue.
Ben Doyle
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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As usual, Mom is right.
I remember the "Moonight Hike" my parents took my family of 4 kids on. We went up the Yosemite Falls Trail, taking the Coleman lantern, such idiots. We all remember the trip but my memories include hiding in the sun-warmed pot holes out of the wind in the dry bed of Yosemite Creek below the footbridge, straddling the trickle of water at the very brink of Upper Fall, and chasing a porcupine off the trail on the way past Columbia Point. We were having family fun, old school. Camp 4, where we were "forced to accept" because no other sites were available, was preferable to Smokey Jack up on the Tioga Road. This was 1962 or 63.
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 17, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
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Some of this is really good. And lots is REALLY bad. Anything they demo and get out of there is good as far as I'm concerned. And the tunnels are good to better the disgusting traffic mess.
Removing all turnouts is terrible and a fence around El Cap meadow just sounds terrible. Plenty more terrible here. Oh yes, the 250 parking lot sonunds beyond terrible.
This plan just needs to be revised and adjusted.
Sean.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
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BRING BACK THE FIREFALL!
It's what the people want.
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brandom
Trad climber
SF, CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
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Parking structures at Wawona, El Portal, Crane flats; yes - but...
... shuttles every 5 minutes! And, pick up/drop off at *ANY* pull-out. Only then will everyone prefer to use the shuttle. They could do it.
Oh yeah, and security patrol on the parking lot. Otherwise it becomes crime-city.
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
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Let's consider my modest proposal:
1) Remove 50% of Park Administrators.
2) Remove 50% of the Asphalt in the park.
3) Add bus service to all park locations currently acccessible by cars.
4) Add some Cayenne pepper to a park administrator's undrgarments when he/she is not looking.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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Sad to say but I support Yosemite Valley be accessible to Mom and Pop and the kids, That's how I got initiated into the rest of my life
Peace
Karl
Why is that sad to say, Karl? You are absolutely right!
John
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sierracanon
Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
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I keep seeing the question "what are they doing to our valley?" Hate to break the news to you, but it was "done" to the valley a long time ago, long before most of us ever visited there. Rampant commercialism has been a part of the valley for decades, and it will be difficult if not impossible to reign it in.
Getting rid of the ice rink and housekeeping camp would be a great step. But they are such established institutions, a decision to remove either of them (especially H Camp) would be very unpopular with a lot of people.
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