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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Jan 18, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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one fall day down at arch rock saw a group of japanese tourists eagerly picking bouquets of red leaves with white berries. bet they had fun with that later... then again, some people can roll in that stuff with immunity.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 18, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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We came across the classic top roping error of having the rope through the sling without a 'biner.
I have never done this, ever. Never ever. Not since day one. And we (the core San Diego/Scumbag crew) were essentially self-taught. My first rack was a 150' 9mm Edelrid rope shoplifted fom Stanley Andrews, some first generation Chouinard nuts, a few of the cheapest oval beaners you could buy, and a bunch of 1" tubular runners tied with a water knot. Any fool with an IQ that cracks room temperature should be able to suss the implications of top-roping a route through a sling with no beaner. And after having done it just once, you should be able to observe the abrasion/melt damage and draw the obvious conclusion.
As climbing became mainstream, the simple fear of getting killed that was so tangible back in the bad old days has given way to an inability or unwillingness or simple lack of concern regarding the basic question I always asked myself as an unschooled n00b: Do I know what I am doing? What could go wrong here? Should I check my rigging again (for the 10th time) before I commit to it? What would Jesus do?
And I asked questions of more experienced climbers. Lots of questions. And if one of them offered advice, unsolicited or otherwise, I hung on every word. It never occured to me to be pissed, put-upon, or humiliated.
To this day, when starting a rappel, I'll be clipped in and ready to put full weight on the rope, but before I do I'll stare at that anchor looking for flaws as though my life depended on it. Rick Piggot once examined a TR anchor I'd set up on American Gypsy at Woodson and smirked "practicing your wall anchors, Bob?"
I know this has become a trite, vaguely condenscending, bitter-old-guy cliche, but I genuinely beleive most of the rude, numbskulled, hair-raising behavior we see in n00bs these days is directly attributable to the fact that the vast majority of novice climbers emerge straight outta the gyms and onto the crags, deluded by the notion they know what they are doing. Some do, but a lot -- a LOT -- clearly don't.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Jan 19, 2012 - 01:18am PT
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Wow!
I won't even start on the things I (we) got away with as beginners. And, remember, everyone here was a beginner once, at the beginning.
Some seasons back, my daughter and I are up on an easy, well bolted (with a gear 1st pitch, though) route on Medlicott. The route offers the reward of a summit at The Lake of the Domes, which is as fine as the climbing on the route itself.
However, the final pitch is choss. You can sneak a small piece behind some loose flackage before your attend to the business of a minor, but exposed roof below the summit slabs...but it's a grand idea that the Leader shall not fall.
I guess it was with this in mind that a trio of Japanese women chose to rap down from the stance below this last pitch...I imagine lots of folks do.
The first thing that caught my eye was after the 1st climber rapped down to the stance (below which I decided to pause at the bolt below, to stay the heck out of their fall line!), and clipped into just one of the 3 bomber bolt anchors, on a semi hanging sloper of a slab belay ledge.
She was then followed down the 2 - 60m rap lines by her girlfriends, who were simulrappelling.
Now, this sketch retreat is sometimes occasioned by the onset of night; the need for expediency. However, this was early afternoon; we were on the way up.
I guess what grabbed my attention was that the gal on the left hand strand clipped into the 1st one down's harness with a single draw; then the girl on the right hand strand clipped into the left hand girls harness, again with a single draw. And, remember, the "leader" was only anchored to one bolt herself.
They were climbing, and I quote, "like slices of bread in a loaf."
The only thing weirder about the scene was seeing a xerox of the topo - in Japanese! Observing the language barrier, I didn't, for once, offer my free advice service.
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fsck
climber
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Jan 19, 2012 - 01:22am PT
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these stories are horrific. just horrific.
tell me, how do we purge these vile "noobs" from the sport? surely there must be a way to keep distance from these foul single-quickdraw-anchoring humans who dare try and imitate our acts of unalloyed bravery.
i, for one, will not stand for this flagrant noobery.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 19, 2012 - 01:24am PT
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We came across the classic top roping error of having the rope through the sling without a 'biner.
Two years ago we get to the base, scene of the accident.
The guy turfed onto his azz.
Top roping thru a sling without biner and melted thru.
Broke his tailbone ....
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~kief~
Trad climber
nor-cal
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Jan 19, 2012 - 02:05am PT
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I will admit i did a very stupid thing at red rocks this fall...
we were doing the usual endless multiple raps,it was dark,we were tired
Halfway down and 3 double raps from the ground,i toss the rope....
AND PROCEED TO SWEAR LIKE SAILER...i forgot the small detail of threading
it through the chains and attaching the ropes together...DUH!
luckily i was able to fix the rope,rap down and those damn jugs we curse
when pulling ropes had caught the rope and hung it up.
could of been stuck up there.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 19, 2012 - 02:15am PT
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Broke his tailbone ...
Hopefully it broke his pride as well, and he became a bit more teachable. After 39 years of climbing, I still listen with a keen ear when someone whose opinon I respect is holding forth. They day you begin to believe you have nothing new to learn is the day you edge closer to injury, or death, or worst of all, getting somebody else killed.
When I moved to Flagstaff in 2002, the bouldering posse I hooked up with were younger than me by anywhere between 20 - 30 years. I picked up a slew of new-age bouldering trickery Jedi Mind Tricks from those guys. My ability on wierd new (to me) techniques particular to Limestone roofs improved by whole orders of magnitude.
But Jesus Christ, those guys sucked at crack climbing.
Never coulda sent these rigs without paying close attention to some sage advice from a sw0le, pot-smoking, heel-hooking, techno-drone-music loving wet-behind-the-ears pad brat. (Thanks, Colin!)
Yes, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. Just gotta use the right bait. In my case it was pure, naked, unfettered competitiveness and pride. I HAD to keep up, or join a bowling team. Good enuf for this (c)bone-crushing, chick-swooning, motherfukking straight outta Woodson American Legend!
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Tfish
Trad climber
La Crescenta, CA
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Jan 23, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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Heard this from some kook at a climbing gym this weekend - "When we top rope it says five point something, the higher the second number the harder the route, it's some stupid European scale."
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Jan 23, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Tfish-
I hope you beat that person sensless!!!!!!!!!!
The worst thing I ever saw was at Big Rock. Group of gym climbers out for thier first outside trip. One of them runs up a route and sets up his "anchor" which consists of one draw on one of two bolts. That partituclar anchor station has two bolts, oneof which has a hanger that just spins. Of course his draw is on the hanger that spins. I try to let them know that they should probably use both bolts, and if you are going to be crazy enough to trust just one they would probably want to use the one that isn't spinning like a top. I was greated with "Dont worry we know what we are doing. Someone at the gym told us how to do this"
Eric
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 23, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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"Dont worry we know what we are doing."
That's what they said when they burned witches.
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James1985
Trad climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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There seems to be a lot of the following comments:
"What do I care if some moron dies at the hands of another one? They were right, Ain't MY business. Best thing about true stupidity is the opportunity it gives some people to clean up the gene pool."
-RokJox
"You should have left it there Ron. Darwin rules..."
-rlf
I wonder what it will take for people to stop beleiving that the stupid should die climbing and this is some how justifiable.
Good on everyone for telling/trying there best to keep climbing safe by calling others out. However I agree with Lasli we are all very lucky.
"Great stories y'all, nice to see that stupidity is universal. And that most of us survived through some evolutionary loophole."
-Lasli
Heres my stoopedest thing seen while climibing:
I was cleaning an anchor, scared and exposed in Joshua tree. I clipped my rap device into my gear loop only to realize mid-way through the rappell. I had to switch over to my belay loop while hanging with from the rope with one hand. This could have gone wrong in so many ways but it didnt. Evolutionaryloop hole I guess.
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hb81
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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I was cleaning an anchor, scared and exposed in Joshua tree. I clipped my rap device into my gear loop only to realize mid-way through the rappell. I had to switch over to my belay loop while hanging with one hand on to the rope. This could have gone wrong in so many ways but it didnt. Evolutionary loop hole I guess.
Might have been safer to just continue the rappel, don't ya think?
However you're alive, so you were probably right :))
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 23, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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Most raps at Jtree are so short that if things go really bad you can just Batman down the rope...
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YoungGun
climber
North
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Jan 23, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
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I saw someone have to get rescued on top rope. Really.
Hiking up to the base of the cliff we come across a group of five 20 somethings who had just rapped in. My partner and I said hello, and kept walking over to the easier lines around the corner. A few minutes later two of the guys come running past in a big hurry, headed for the closest easy way to the top. We ask if everything is okay, and they say yes, they just need to go rescue their friend.
Turns out what we thought was merely a rappel was also their top rope. The "route" they were on wasn't even a route, per se, just a couple of bolts someone put in for dry tooling. There are two wide roofs stacked on top of one another, but the first roof is really just a huge piece of granite jutting out from the face so that it's a roof (from the bottom) and a ledge (from the top). Hopefully this makes sense. Anyway, the guy climbs up to the first roof, but can't clear it. So he traverses left. Way left. Climbs up under the second roof, but can't clear it. So he traverses left again. This time, however, he can't even find a way around the roof to the left. And by this point he's so far to the left of where his TR anchor is located, if he falls he's going to take a 25-30 ft pendulum into the top of the first roof/ledge.
They rapped in on a second rope to save his ass. By the time they got him down he could barely stand up.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Jan 23, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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I would like to point out that I know what "go F off" means.
If I am outraged enough to mention your death wish, and you are clear enough as to understanding what "You're gonna die" means, who the hell am I to get involved; unless your woman is really good looking and sounding like she understands sh#t better than you and is looking to be rescued.
In that case I might intervien a little stronger.
But if you are some smelly youthful male moron, you got a perfect right to die anyway you want that doesn't involve me. I will maybe even hang out if it looks emminent and ridicule you as you take that last breath. I really hate the smell of old death, so I WILL report the death so as to preserve the delicate environment around the climb.
Your gear I will sift through. I will leave the rope, the harnesses and your coat on the body. Rest of that sh#t is just booty to me.
If there is anything you don't like about this image, of me picking through your stuff before your next of kin, then DON'T PISS ME OFF BY TELLING ME TO GO F MYSELF when I tell you you are about to kill yourself.
Believe in old guys. They lived through it all already..
It's amazing ever so many more ain't killed around here. How is it that the most experienced seem to get chopped as often as the Noob's?
You are a very sad little man.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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Rocky -- "Believe in old guys. They lived through it all already.."
You would be surprised how much cool improvised stuff these current top climbers have come up with these days.
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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Jan 23, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
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I climb with a MIRROR...
;-)
phhhht... I read this whole thread thinking I was going to get to say that...
:-)
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seth kovar
climber
Reno, NV
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Jan 23, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
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I wonder how many threads have turned into "I'm roxiejoxie, look at me" threads. It's like once he posts it's all over, every post is him or about him.
Just wondering out loud.
Carry on...
and watch out, remember when he was going to come claim my gear when I had my epic at Donner?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1501012/Left-Gear-at-Donner-Help
You gotta watch him.
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hb81
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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How is it that the most experienced seem to get chopped as often as the Noob's?
Because routine can be dangerous too. People tend to get careless when they've done certain things a couple thousand times.
I think it was discussed here before that when you draw a statistical graph that shows years of climbing experience related to fatalities it is high for total newbs, then goes down and then goes up again when it comes to people with some decades of experience.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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KabalaArch-
However, the final pitch is choss. You can sneak a small piece behind some loose flackage before your attend to the business of a minor, but exposed roof below the summit slabs...but it's a grand idea that the Leader shall not fall.
I guess it was with this in mind that a trio of Japanese women chose to rap down from the stance below this last pitch...I imagine lots of folks do.
The first thing that caught my eye was after the 1st climber rapped down to the stance (below which I decided to pause at the bolt below, to stay the heck out of their fall line!), and clipped into just one of the 3 bomber bolt anchors, on a semi hanging sloper of a slab belay ledge.
She was then followed down the 2 - 60m rap lines by her girlfriends, who were simulrappelling.
Now, this sketch retreat is sometimes occasioned by the onset of night; the need for expediency. However, this was early afternoon; we were on the way up.
I guess what grabbed my attention was that the gal on the left hand strand clipped into the 1st one down's harness with a single draw; then the girl on the right hand strand clipped into the left hand girls harness, again with a single draw. And, remember, the "leader" was only anchored to one bolt herself.
They were climbing, and I quote, "like slices of bread in a loaf."
The only thing weirder about the scene was seeing a xerox of the topo - in Japanese! Observing the language barrier, I didn't, for once, offer my free advice service.
These Japanese ladies were not being "stoopid." They were being Japanese. Culturally, they Japanese are very polite and will go WAY out of their way to not be rude or intrude on your space. Case in point:
1. Japanese gal #1 raps down and clips into one bolt (of 3). She didn't want to impose on your anchor, so she only clipped one bolt.
2. Japanese gals #2 and #3 simul-rapped down to the anchor. This was done to hurry up and get out of YOUR way. Very polite indeed.
3. Japanese gals tied into each other instead of each one independently into your anchor. See case 1, above.
It's a good thing you did not say anything to these gals. They were just being very polite.
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